#Unpacked EP 14: Lead Scoring

In this episode of the Unpacked show, Remington Begg and George B. Thomas Unpack a ton of information on Lead Scoring to help you understand your leads better.


Full Transcript

George B. T.: All right. Remington Begg, we are live for Sprocket Talk, and I'm super excited because we got some interim music, we got a little countdown going. But more importantly, I'm excited because we're talking about lead scoring today. Lead scoring is dope. It's actually one of the things that I really fell in love with early as far as like a nerd level. You know how you have things... you kind of fall in love because you're nerdy?

Remington: Sure.

George B. T.: What are some of those things that you've fallen in love with because you're nerdy, Remington?

Remington: HubL code, lead scoring, for sure, but maybe not for the most conventional ways. And then smart content. Probably the three nerdy things that I'm probably a little obsessive over, to be completely honest.

George B. T.: Yeah. Yeah. Without a doubt. Well, we want to welcome everybody to Sprocket Talk Unpacked. Today we are talking about lead scoring. Hey, if you're watching this live, make sure you head over to sprockettalk.com, ign up for your free VIP membership because yes, the site is live.

Remington: Finally.

George B. T.: It's beautiful a thing. It's a beautiful thing. Also-

Remington: And if you're watching this [crosstalk 00:03:02].

George B. T.: ... oh, go ahead. Go ahead.

Remington: ... if you're watching this on the SprocketTalk.com/unpack/live, you get to see this live, that's completely ungated for people who want to test this out and see what we're about and what we're talking about. But you can also, right to the right, if you're viewing this on a desktop or right below if you're viewing it on a mobile phone, you can go ahead and fill that form out to get started so that you can get access to all of the old unpacks and a whole bunch of more resources too. So I'm stoked that it's finally live. I'm getting excited here.

George B. T.: What's up, Joe, glad to see that you're here. Awesome. [crosstalk 00:03:42]. Yes, yes, Joe, we are live. This is not prerecorded. So it is exciting Remington, because the fact that people who are watching this and get a bunch of value as we dive into lead scoring, they need to realize that they can go watch on all the other... I think it's like 12 or 13 other episodes that we've already been doing along the way that we've hidden and packed away. Austin, Texas in the house. Glad to hear it, Joe.

Remington: That's awesome.

George B. T.: And also, if you're watching this and you have questions about lead scoring, make sure you leave it in the comments. Leave us a thumbs up, leave us some emojis. We love emojis in the comment section as well. So Remington, why don't we go ahead and get into the good stuff. When you think of lead scoring, when you think of HubSpot, when you think of sales and marketing and service nerdiness, where do you want to start the conversation?

Remington: So that's a lot. So I think let's... What I want to start with the conversation is like what the heck is lead scoring in the first place? And the true answer is anything you want it to be, but we'll get into that and unpack that more in a minute. But the other item is really thinking about... Fundamentally, lead scoring is a way to prioritize people who are coming to your website or are in your contact list. And how I explain it is creating a score that makes sense to your internal team. It's really more of just an internal metric that allows for you to prioritize contacts within the list. And how I explain it to salespeople and even managers in a lot of cases... because they're like, "Well, all contacts in our database are valuable."

Remington: Yes, that's true. But some are more powerful and more valuable than others. And so what I said is, if you only could choose three contacts in your entire database right now, what three contexts would they be to have a conversation if that was the only ones that you could talk to? In a lot of cases, that's where it starts to... you start to see light bulbs go off.

George B. T.: Yeah. Without a doubt, Remington. And of course, we've got technical difficulties because my camera is frozen, but we're going to go ahead and continue through this; at least people can hear the audio. It's funny, Remington, that you mentioned the fact that people, when they think of lead scoring at first, they might actually just not have these parameters, or if I may even call them or steal, you say there's guardrails, right?

Remington: Yep.

George B. T.: And so a lot of people will get into lead scoring, and somebody will see a score of 300 or somebody will see a score of 600 and they'll be like, "I don't even know what that means." And so one of the things with lead scoring that we always love to do is set those defined parameters, set those areas that we can actually pay attention to and look at and understand, what do the certain metrics or numbers of lead scoring mean? So one of the things that we'll get into later is a lead scoring metrics, and I talk about how... Let's just do one to a hundred.

George B. T.: And by the way, when I throw out numbers, Remington, for this episode, the numbers can change. The numbers can be modified. Like you said at the beginning, you can make it what you want it to be. The numbers can be modified. But for simplicity sake, when I talk about the lead scoring metrics, it's going to be one to a hundred. And by the way, that's probably one word that you may want to think about when you're talking about lead scoring, is how do we keep it simple so it can be effective? Yes, Joe, I am froze. Remington, take it over for a little bit. Let me see if I can get this camera fixed here.

Remington: Sure. So when we're talking about the specific issues around the score, a lot of times people immediately go to grade school, the one through 100. It doesn't have to be that way. In fact, you could have a negative score on a lot of your contacts, depending on what you're looking at from a priority standpoint. So what I like to do when I'm thinking about the score is thinking about starting from the bottom of the funnel. So from the very most basic things.

Remington: If you were to look at the holy grail of lead sheets, as George calls it, when you're giving all of this contact information in regards to what's needed for the sales team to have an adequate picture about what's going on, that holy grail of lead sheets is going to have some contact information, right? And that contact information is going to be really important to sales. And in a lot of cases, it's also important to marketing. But we don't think about it that way. And so if you... That can be the beginning part of the actual contact details side of lead scoring where you can actually dig in and say these are all the fields that we want, and then take it from there.

George B. T.: Yeah, yeah. Without a doubt. So it's funny because you mentioned fields there, Remington, and what I want people to start to understand and realize is there are certain mindsets around what you might actually want to be scoring upon. So like when I think of a lead scoring metrics.... which by the way, I'm probably going to make available. If you're watching this right now and you would love to see a lead scoring metrics example, give us the nerd emoji. Let's use the nerd emoji for this one, because if so, then what I can do is go ahead and make sure that we put that as a tool in SprocketTalk.com, and we'll get it to you guys so you can view it. But when I think-

Remington: For VIP only.

George B. T.: ... VIP only, of course, which is free.

Remington: We'll give to free people. We'll give it to the free people, but VIP-

George B. T.: It's just free.

Remington: ... only.

George B. T.: VIP. You've got to be very important. But when I think of this, there are a couple of segments that I think about. So I think about, how do I score socially? If people are on Facebook, if they're on LinkedIn, if they're on Twitter, if they're on these platforms that I can look at with HubSpot and I can base on clicks, are they actually engaging in the socials, right? So I want to score that. And I and I may do a point, a click. I may figure out which platform is more powerful to me, meaning which one is generating more traffic or which one is generating more leads. I may give that one bonus points.

George B. T.: Francis Bowman with the nerd emoji. Yeah. I love to see that.

Remington: And Joe.

George B. T.: Which by the way, I love that Francis is on here because Francis gave us props for the lead scoring metrics when we went out and did a workshop at the company that she works at. And so we know that this stuff makes sense. We know that it can be life changing for you as a marketing and sales team to have something to pay attention to. The other part of this is that I want to [crosstalk 00:10:35]. We have three nerd emojis, John Hog. And we want to do this. We want to pay attention to also, what I call like a a trifecta, if you will, or a good, better, best. Maybe that's a better way to put it.

George B. T.: So even when we dig down into things like a persona, is there a persona that's a number one, a persona that's a number two and a persona that's a number three? Each one of those, when they convert, if I know and have found out who they are, should get a score. Even down to things, Remington, like company size. Well, we want to work with companies who have 50 people first, without a doubt. 50 or more. If they have 49 to 25, it will work with them, but they might not be... A little less score. 10 employees or less, it's really not our cup of tea, but, but, we're trying to acquire new business; we know that they may grow, so okay. But five and below, no way. Zero, negative points.

George B. T.: Oh, oh, did I just drop that this early? Hang on. I'll hold off on the negative points. Remington, so I want to capsulate this as, there's different sectors that you should pull into, and there should be different levels of those sectors that you're giving your points to. Remington, what else do you think about when you think about lead scoring, marketing sales goodness?

Remington: So people beginning with lead scoring are probably going to start thinking about the fact that they've got to create one lead score. But on the other side, you're going to have the ability if you have enterprise level of HubSpot. I believe it's any of the HubSpot. Very sure about the marketing hub, you get up to 15 different scoring criteria fields. And so what's cool about that is you could have different departments that are responsible for different things that have their own internal score. And it takes a lot to think about. But imagine the things that marketing cares about that sales cares about slightly different. You no longer have to share those scores if necessary.

Remington: And that's where lead scoring really starts to show you, especially when you combine [inaudible 00:12:46] reports. Like imagine doing a report on how many people in your database have a score above 50, if 50 is that threshold of higher quality. But then imagine what would happen if a majority of it was under 50, but yet you're touting this list as being the holy grail. It can be really, really dangerous in that regard. So I love the idea of multiple lead scores, but the reporting on that lead score is something that I think most people miss. They put in the criteria and then all they do is see that score on a one by one contact level when you could be looking at it lead score by source, lead score by outreach, lead score by customer. You could be looking at all of these different things to start comparing where your database is versus where it could be for the highest success.

George B. T.: Yeah. I love that you brought up having... So like, let's just go back... which by the way, if you're watching this live and you're not a free VIP at sprockettalk.com, it's easy for me to say today, make sure you head over there, get your free membership, you'll be able to watch all the historical episodes. But Remington, we started and I said, well, for example's sake, I'm going to do today lead scoring metrics one to a hundred, right?

Remington: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

George B. T.: And that's a wide field. That's a very wide field. And if you think about a hundred yards, like football, American football, if you're at one end zone and you got to make it all the way to the other one, you're like, "Ah, I don't know how I'm going to get there." And there's going to be a bunch of different plays that you're going to have to play, and you don't know which plays actually work best for that whole hundred yards. However, if you're at the five yard line close to your end zone, you now know the place that you want to play because they make sense for that five yard line.

George B. T.: And so what I want people to realize is they should make sectors and a mental note of what should be happening at those lines. And what I mean by that is this little ditty that we call radar research revenue, which by the way-

Remington: Oh, man.

George B. T.: ... yeah, yeah. We're going to probably turn this into a course that's going to be in the VIP area, paid; VIP plus membership area about radar research revenue. And just let me give you a glimpse into this. For lead scoring, you might have a lead score of 25, a lead score of 50 and a lead score of 75, and you might map that 25, 50, 75, which by the way, for your company, all these numbers, you can play with them. You can make them your own. But you might have a list that shows you all the people at 25, all the people at 50, all the people at 75 as far as a score. So now you know where they are or how close they are to the end zone.

George B. T.: So now it's not the one through a hundred, but it's the 25 to 50 to 75, and you can map mental things that need to happen at those numbers. So for instance, if it's a HubSpot score of 25, they should probably be on our radar. We should start thinking about, hey, they're moving in the right direction, they're reading our blog articles, they're checking out our service page. They've converted on maybe one form, or something along those lines.

George B. T.: If they've got a score of 50, now we should start doing some research. Are they a good fit? What do their website look like? And I'm just talking about what information can I get from their website? What's their team page look like? Who's in charge? Who can I tell is the thought leader? What's their socials? What are they talking about? Are they a good fit from just a person to person, human to human level? And if they reach a score of 75, maybe it's revenue, radar research revenue. See where we got the name, people? I'm just throwing that out there.

George B. T.: If they get to 75, what it means is we should've generated some revenue yesterday. See, now, that takes a very complex system, lead scoring, and breaks it down into actionable things that humans know what to do and plays that we should play. Remington, whew, what else do you think about when you think about lead scoring?

Remington: Yeah. So you just went through a whole bunch of stuff. And so I think in going through that, one of the things that's important... So you could go ultra simple, you don't have to go as crazy as what George has out there. But what's cool is you can adjust this down the road. But you can change your score, you can modify it. You're going to learn things once you start seeing this data. The most important thing is documentation. You need to document this.

Remington: So if your target score is 75, that's fine. Define what a 75 looks like, define what the 50 looks like and define that 25. And again, these numbers are arbitrary. It's more so like where you start seeing these numbers come in. We love tetra. It's a doc for us to record your internal things and internal memos and trying to make sure that people what's going on in your org. If you document and people know what that means, that becomes like a North Star for people to know how to handle that list. And if you're doing reporting and you're doing automation around stuff like that, that leads score can become ultra powerful.

Remington: And how I explain why that matters is... Going back to the list criteria versus the actions... That's where I think we should go next. But the list criteria of all the different fields that you have, you're going to have that ready to go, request a consultation form that's got 15 or 20 fields in it. If someone fills out those 15 to 20 questions in one form, you get an email that comes out that goes to your sales team that has all of that information in one spot.

Remington: In a lot of cases, there are people that use progressive profiling. And we know at progressive profiling is where we go in and we ask one question on one form, and then just start trickling away at that full profile. If you hit the point where you've got enough information for that demo because you've trickled through, your lead score should identify that. It should equal the same. And if you do that the right way, then what you can do is trigger things off of that lead score or that criteria, and that makes it so that now all of a sudden you've got this lead score that means something and that's really important, and now you can start leveraging other ways to do it. Whether you're focusing on marketing geared for contractors and you've got a specific area, or whether you go in another direction and it's focused on people who are coming back for another bit of business.

George B. T.: Yeah, definitely. Comfort Media in the house, by the way. And here's the thing too, it's funny, Remington, you're like, "And of course we know what progressive profiling is." But if you know what progressive profiling is, put a thumbs up in the chat pane. If you are like, "I wish I knew what it was," put a thumbs down, just so we know we can reach out, especially if you're a sprocket talk [crosstalk 00:19:38]. Yeah, we might unpack that in a future show. Remington, I know you want to get to the actions. I want to get there too, but there's something that I have to say about lead scoring that is just... has to happen, and that is the fact of negative scores.

George B. T.: Everybody wants to talk about positive scores; keeping everything positive, plus this, plus five, plus seven, plus 12, plus 20. Oh yeah, they're a good lead. In life, there are positives and there are negatives, and most people when they build out their lead scoring, they don't pay attention to the negatives. And so, look for reasons... and by the way, it's in the lead scoring metrics that we are going to share in the free VIP area. Look for areas that they may need a negative score. Are they a non fit persona? Which by the way, as I say that, do you have non fit negative personas in your HubSpot portal or do you just have positive personas? Probably another episode of Unpacked. Just saying.

George B. T.: But if they're a negative persona, negative score. If they're a competitor, negative score. If they're not using a business email, if you're a B2B, if they're not using a business email, negative score. Find those ways to actually [levelize 00:20:58] out the system so that it's a true number instead of just to always be building upon numbers. So go to definitely hit. Make sure you're using negative scores along with positive scores in your lead scoring. Remington, what do you got next?

Remington: So actions. So, not all pages on your website are created equal. When I talk about conversational strategy and stuff like that, we have a lot of conversations around like high intent pages. The easiest thing to do is... Rather than just going... If any page on our domain, add one point, that's that's a lazy way of doing it. Still can be effective, but not all pages on your website are created equal. So you can do combinations, and that's probably one of the biggest things when I talk to people about lead scoring that they don't realize; you can do combinations of things equal score.

Remington: And an example of that is if someone is interested in... If someone's a contractor and you do marketing geared towards contractors, if a contractor persona is identified in the system or by industry then views your contractor marketing service page, the combination of those two things is incredibly powerful. It's probably more powerful than if someone who's a competitor goes to that same contractor marketing page. So start thinking about the actions, but then also the combinations of actions that should accelerate that score or bring that score higher so that it's notable.

George B. T.: Yeah. So Remington, back to the progressive profiling conversation. So, I'm going to add this to... I think I can add it right there. So you might not be able to see this Remington, but John gives a thumbs up, a thumbs down and the two [inaudible 00:22:57].

Remington: And the raised hands.

George B. T.: Like [inaudible 00:22:58]. The raised hands. So I am confused.

Remington: The answer is yes.

George B. T.: It's kind of a [inaudible 00:23:06]. So I love that. So we definitely need to unpack that, without a doubt. So love it, love it, love it. And I love that the folks are here. So Remington, with lead scoring, we've got about five minutes left of this show, I want to ask a question of the people who are on, and the people who are on, what is the most difficult thing that you face when it comes to building a lead scoring system? I want you to go ahead and throw that in the chat pane. What is the most like, "Oh man, I just want to beat my forehead against this brick wall thing," when it comes to building lead scoring? Remington=

Remington: Cool.

George B. T.: .... when I think of lead scoring, and I think of all the things that are the most important, what I don't want people to do is fall into the trap that they may already be in, and that is, they're not looking at lead scoring as part of their campaign actions. So this is what I mean; when when somebody says, "Hey, we're going to build a campaign," they say, "Okay, cool. Well, we need to build a landing page," check, we need to build a thank you page, check, we need to build some CTAs for the sidebar and the bottom of the blog and where else [inaudible 00:24:23], check, check. We need to build this email, cheque, and a nurturing sequence to follow that email, check, check, check, check. All the things. All the things.

George B. T.: But on that list of building a campaign is not usually, and we need to score everything that we just built. Because here's the deal, what should be happening with your lead scoring is that it should be growing as you grow; when you have more lead magnets, eBooks, checklists, stats sheets, webinars, videos. Remington, we cannot leave this episode without talking about videos in lead scoring. But as you build these out, as these things add, you need to make sure that you're scoring. Well, one point if they open that email, two points if they click, like that type of thing.

George B. T.: So just remember to add lead scoring, adding the numbers to the building of the campaign as you move forward, which by the way... I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you haven't been doing it up until this point-

Remington: It's going to suck.

George B. T.: ... So, stop by. But start with the most powerful things you have, like what's getting the most views, what's getting the most conversions? Score on that first and work your way down. Anyway.

Remington: Love it.

George B. T.: What's up Brenton?

Remington: So you, as you jumped into talking about that last tidbit, actually worked out great for Comfort Media Group in regards to staying current as content grows, like roll it into your process, make sure you add in that criteria, and then it's up to date in your lead score. What I want to jump in, I'm going to skip over because John has a great thing, and I think you can tie into it here. But Francis asked, filtering out tire kickers and digital pack rats... and I believe I know where she's going with this, but there is a solution to that, but it can tie into your lead score pretty well, is... What we have is... We have a lot of people, for Impulse as well, they'll come through and they'll convert on six different forms all at the same time. Well, not at the same time, but minute after minute after minute. It's like, you could not possibly have finished with that last piece of content before you downloaded the next.

Remington: And it's hard to identify that. But what you can do if you're using workflows with these form submits is you can increment a number, and then make it so it increments each time immediately, and then make it so that after an hour it resets that number. So that if someone is engaged in your content, that you have some kind of signal. And what you can do is you can put a score connected to that actual lead, that number that increments to show how many they've downloaded in the past five minutes.

Remington: So we're working on refactoring some of ours as well, that if you're trying to consume five of our offers within a five minute period, you're probably just trying to scrape our content, we're actually going to make it so it goes, "Hold up, we like to provide value. What are you trying to accomplish?" And it puts the brakes in there. But in addition, you could have that lead score show that, that if they hit that number, that it almost is like tarnishing their record overall.

George B. T.: It's funny because we're talking about-

Remington: I just lost your video again. You're back.

George B. T.: ... Yeah. We're talking about speed and in which they do things. And it's interesting that this comes up because there is a human way to do things and a very non human way to do things. And so I almost look at... Remington, if people are coming in like five, six... If they're coming in hot; five, six, seven things at a time, like my gut goes to, yeah, you're a competitor and you're probably trying to steal our junk. And I don't mean our junk

Remington: True.

George B. T.: ... I just mean in general, which then gets super frustrating to me. And so again, I almost wonder if there's a way to map out, or if one should map out a speed in which things happen does get the positive. And if it's too fast, it at least throws up... I'm not saying it necessarily gets a negative, but maybe it gets a negative, but at least it throws up a red flag to inspect that a little bit more, and then physically maybe give them a score to add a number to them or something along those lines. So well, Remington, believe it or not, it is 12:59. We have been talking about this for almost 30 minutes.

Remington: You've got to answer John's question though in this chat. You want me to ask it?

George B. T.: Yeah. So go ahead and ask me the question and then I'll go for it.

Remington: How do we not get tied up in not trying to make lead scoring too smart, and where's the best spot to dig in and set up an initial lead score metrics and then build from there?

George B. T.: Yeah, definitely. So a, John, I'm just going to send you the lead scoring metrics, so that's going to be simple because then you're going to be able to see it. The thing is, you don't want it to be, Ooh, yeah, automate those people into suppression lists. Sorry, I got to quit looking at the chat pane. I can't look over there.

Remington: Yep. [inaudible 00:29:51].

George B. T.: So here's the thing, you do want to keep it simple. You want to keep it streamlined, and you want to be able to define what is important for your company and what I would even say is a sales process. Now, I'm going to just vocalize a way that I look at lead scoring, what I'm trying to do, and maybe this is where we should have started. When you start with lead scoring, you should always have a goal in mind. And I always hate with set a goal because everybody says that. HubSpot says a billion times and every certification, have a smart goal.

George B. T.: But, at the end of the day, you should have a goal in mind. And for me, it's, how can I use lead scoring to deliver the most amazing qualified lead that is just a no brainer for sales to work? And so to simplify it, I need to know everything that my sales team wants to know. I need to know everything that I want to know from an org as for as right fit, and waddle any other noise around that away. So everything that I talk about as far as lead scoring can be a list. So for instance, have they downloaded this eBook, this checklist, have they watched this video? Have they opened or closed these emails? Have they read 30 pages, 60 pages, 90 pages? What's their job title? What's their company size? All the demographics of like... All of that can be a list.

George B. T.: And at the end of the day... And this is why I brought up the thing of wanting to have that good, better, best; is at the end of the day, I want to be able to generate what would be a hot leads list from my lead scoring metrics of, let's just say this, it's a top priority persona with a top priority company size of a top priority job title who happens to be a 25 on the lead scoring of social and has downloaded three forms, which gives them a lead score of 75.

George B. T.: But all of those pieces can be simply digested into this nice little system that again, the goal is super qualified. Anything that has nothing to do with that, I just toss it to the side because it's all about what is the need to know, and really not paying attention to what is the nice to know, because a lot of people, Remington, me, nerdy people, we want to know big data.

Remington: Sure.

George B. T.: What we really want to focus on is effective data-

Remington: Yeah, for sure.

George B. T.: ... needed data, and lead scoring, if you keep it simple, can be that.

Remington: So I love that. You went methodical there, but then there's the literal. And I think my biggest thing is, don't get tripped up trying to figure out what the end score should be. Find your three or four customers that have come through your site, preferably not offline source and look for the patterns that you see. Look at how many pages they visited, look at how many conversions and form submissions they did. Look at those to come up with ideas about the kind of criteria that you should look for, and then when you build out your score in a spreadsheet, something not in HubSpot right away, build that out and then go back and look at what the actual score of those same five customers that you did the test numbers on and see what that number is, because that could also be a really great indicator for you to start simple, is just model it after people have converted already.

George B. T.: Hmm. In other words, rinse and repeat what is already been working. I love that, Remington. Well, it is 1:03, we got to let people get back to their regular life. We got to let them go have lunch or do whatever it is that they're going to do. We appreciate you being on this Unpacked episode with us. Make sure you tell your friends every Tuesday at 12:30 we will be unpacking a topic. If you have a topic that you would like us to unpack, you can head over to sprockettalk.com, get your free VIP membership and let us know in there. There's forms you can fill out or you can hit us up on Twitter; I'm at George B. Thomas, he's at Remington Begg, or at Sprocket Talk. It just doesn't matter. You know how to get ahold of us. Remington-

Remington: And let's keep-

George B. T.: ... any parting words?

Remington: ... Yeah, let's continue this... Oh man. Let's continue this conversation in our new Slack community. We have an Unpacked channel that any VIP member will be a part of. If you have further questions that we didn't get a chance to answer, go ahead and drop them in there, and let's vote up some ideas for the next episode because George and I don't know what we're doing next, so let us know.

George B. T.: Yeah. Well, Dan, John, Comfort Media, Francis, Joe, everybody, thanks for joining us today, and we will see you on the next episode of Unpacked, but until then, make sure you're out there being a happy, healthful, humble human and doing some happy hubs spotting. Woo! [inaudible 00:35:09].