The Spot EP15: Reports, Reporting, & Analytics Deep Dive


Ready, Spot, Go

In this episode of The Spot, Doug Davidoff, Juli Durante, Max Cohen and George B. Thomas break down their thoughts on the difference between reports, reporting, and analytics. They start the episode out by answering the age old question, how do you measure success.

What they come up with might just change the way you think about personal and professional success moving forward.

Let's buckle up and get into the good stuff.

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  • Doug: @dougdavidoff
  • Max: @maxjacobcohen
  • George: @georgeBThomas

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About the Expert

The Spot Hosts

Juli Durante is an always-curious marketer interested in the big picture of marketing and sales to help companies drive big revenue. A HubSpot user since 2011, Juli’s deep understanding of inbound marketing campaigns furthers Impulse Creative’s mission of helping businesses grow better.

Doug is the founder and CEO of Imagine Business Development. He’s directly advised more than a dozen companies who have successfully sold for a combined value of more than $1 billion.

For more than 20 years, Doug has been advising small and mid-market companies that are committed to serious growth who want to hear the truth about achieving it. Doug’s worked, firsthand, with more than 1,500 companies (and seen their financial statements), so he knows the difference between what works, and what sounds good and doesn’t work.

Max Cohen started at HubSpot in 2015 as an Implementation Specialist on the Customer Onboarding team after four years on Apple's Business Team.  He joined HubSpot's Learning and Development team as a Product Trainer in 2018 and is currently a Facilitator for HubSpot Foundations, which is HubSpot's new hire onboarding program.  When he's not coaching new HubSpotters on the HubSpot product and the Inbound Methodology, he coaches New England Infamous, a competitive paintball team.  You can learn more about Max and find ways to connect with him by going to

George B. Thomas is an Inbound Marketing Marketer, Video Jedi and HubSpot Certified Trainer with more than 25 years of sales and marketing experience. He leads the Impulse Creative crew in HubSpot certifications with 19 including Inbound, Email, Contextual, and Content Marketing.

George utilizes his love of teaching and learning to help companies find their way to growth via workshops, speaking engagements, business audits, and of course, Sprocket Talk.


Full Transcript

George Thomas 0:04
Are you a HubSpot user looking to stay up to date with HubSpot, inbound and all the information that will make your job easier and help you and your company grow better? Each week the spot brings you the HubSpot, education, ideas and tools that you need to maximize your success. Make Work just a little bit easier. And of course, brighten your day along the way. Listen in as Julie tuck, Max and George share their authentic entertaining and valuable conversations with the people who really matter. That's right you, ladies and gentlemen, let's give it up for your HubSpot journey. Heroes. Welcome to this week's episode of the spot. Ready, spot go. All right, we are back with another episode of the spot. And today I'm super excited as I am always excited. I'm figuring that out as I listen back to the episodes. George, you're just really an excitable dude, because you're always excited. But today we're talking about reporting, we're talking about metrics. And as if you're watching this episode, you can see Max's hat, we might be talking about some math as well, I imagine with the people on this podcast that we'll get there. But I want to start out today show a little bit differently. Because I'm super curious. When we're talking about reporting and the math and the stuff that we're going to get into just from a life standpoint, fundamental standpoint, curious, and we'll start maybe with Doug, maybe we'll go to Julie, then we'll go to max. So whoever was sweating and stop sweating and who wasn't sweating, can start sweating. Like how do you measure success? That's my question for you, Doug. How do you measure success? Doug?

Doug Davidoff 1:40
personally? I don't know. We're talking personally, as opposed to, as opposed to maybe me? Because you know, if we're talking about like, is imagined successful? I mean, for me, it's are we making progress? Can I look back at what we did a year ago, whether it's me, is it? Am I almost embarrassed by what we did a year ago, versus what we're doing today? You know, maybe that's stretching after two years, we know, are we making progress? And you know, the big piece is, what was the expectation going into it? How do we do? It? There's actually two aspects, there's contribution success that I obsess about. And there's outcome success that I try not to. Because I because I think and I'm sure I'll bring this up, we have a tendency to result did did we do you know, based upon what we know, did we play our best game? Did we do what we could have done? And if it turned out that we lose, we don't hit an objective? Because we didn't know about something? Or, you know, then I don't I don't get down about that. I consider that successful. If I can look back and go, yeah, we knew better than that, or something like that. That's where I would be, you know, I would consider it to be not successful.

George Thomas 2:47
It's It's interesting, because I asked how do you measure success? didn't ask if you were successful or not, we'll get back to that. We'll get back to that. Julie, how would you measure success?

Juli Durante 2:57
Um, well, based on your response to Doug, I actually don't know what answer you're looking for, for this question anymore.

Doug Davidoff 3:04
I second that? No, I'm

Unknown Speaker 3:06
not. Yeah. Now,

George Thomas 3:07
I am just looking for brain dumps. Like if it how do you measure success? It's it's that simple,

Unknown Speaker 3:14
like word association,

Juli Durante 3:16
as well. So from a from a business standpoint, from a marketing standpoint, from a, how does the marketing to sales to service continuum standpoint look like? Right? Um, I always like to contextualize everything into a business goal with the asterisk, right? That a lot of it's made up of how it sometimes feels in marketing, even in digital, which we say is like, this is great attribution, this and that, that you can get all of these things, right. There are so many times where, you know, it's the cumulative impact of what you put out into the world. I'm not just going to say marketing content, but everything that your business puts out into the world has some little piece of this attribution puzzle to some person. So don't try to like overemphasize, oh, this ebook, got us, this many customers, but I think it's important to know how that quote unquote funnel looks and works. And then I think there are other wins in that world where you can be successful. So you know, sometimes I might be working on a project with a client that's more operations based. And the success metric is in more customers, if we made this thing a lot easier, or we saved you a lot of money in transitioning from, you know, this crazy system you were using before, into HubSpot, or because we swapped out, you know, one document management system for another you got more features and are paying less. So those are also I think, success metrics. You know, I think the best way to measure success is to have a lot of touch points, right. There are some things that are fluctuating, there are some things that are not outcomes based, right. As Doug mentioned, you know, there are different ways to think about it. So depending on what question you're asking, there are a lot of different answers in that. Yeah,

George Thomas 5:15
yeah. I'm not gonna disagree with that Max, how? How do you my friend measure success.

Max Cohen 5:21
So this is something I've always struggled with. I think in the past, I've always kind of thought that success in anything is either measured, as like, either a vibe or something I can observe or something, you know. And,

Unknown Speaker 5:38
you know, I've

Max Cohen 5:39
always had a real hard time, I think, defining it, something that I've been trying to do more, whether I'm measuring success with something I'm doing at work, or something I'm doing in my personal life, is to try as best I can to use that SMART goal. And I can't remember what it was SMART goal acronym. So specific, measurable, attainable. I think some people say, relative, or relatable, or relative to whatever it is, or something that you're doing relates to what you're doing, or realistic, apart. I've seen the are many different ways. And then time based, I want to accomplish x specific thing by x specific time, and it's something that's actually feasible. And that's always that's something that's super helpful for me, because, you know, I'm the type of person who can get into many different things as one at once and never finish anything. Right. So I think, trying to define what success looks like, and also just not overthinking like what good looks like, because I tend to just kind of over sync that with a number of different projects that I do, or directors that I get at work or anything like that. So yeah, a couple different ways. But like, that's something I've been trying to do recently to like, make it a little easier for me to understand and define what good or what successful looks like with anything that I'm doing.

George Thomas 6:58
I love that. I love that. Doug, I want to circle back around to you. Yeah. Because Doug, your original question to my question was personal or professional. Why is that where your mind immediately went? When I asked the question, how do you measure success? Why was there a divide in the conversation

Doug Davidoff 7:16
that we're about to have, though? The way you teed it up? So I mean, I came on the call a minute came on the podcast, because we're, you know, it's a business focused podcast that we're going to talk about how to you know, so when success in business, so you you had said something? And you know, I am not my business? I am not my professional life? I'm, you know, I'm separate from that. And I've worked hard for that. I actually was gonna circle back and as I thought about it more and listen to everybody. I think I take issue with your question. I don't think you can measure success. I think that's I don't think you can measure progress. But I think success is different than than I mean, to me, what is success? Success is did you make progress? Ben Zander wrote a great book. The Art of possibility, I think is what it is. and success is however you frame it, right? How do you know, what angle Do you want to look at? To to, you know, to define that? So I think that I agree with what Max said, I think we built this culture that it's that is obsessed with this turn success, but it's really disguised as something else. So yeah, yeah,

Juli Durante 8:21
I think that SMART goal framework actually, kind of hurts us sometimes from that perspective, right? Because you put this time bound goal in place. And a lot of times, you can hit all the other things, right? You can do all those other things that you want to do and make that progress. But maybe that date wasn't the best, or maybe something else happened that affected the date. So if you don't hit that date, but you still get that thing, are you successful? Well, if you're really into like, it's a SMART goal, or it's not, it's a SMART goal is not worth having, then losing the date means you didn't achieve anything. And that's really scary, right? Like one of the best lessons that I ever learned about goals and progress. And all this was, I once worked for a company that had a really aggressive growth goal one year, and we were all pretty obsessive about it. Right? It was all of the things that you can think of in terms of a SMART goal framework. The goal was either that year to be like a nine or $10 million company, right? And whichever it was, it was a huge year over year growth. And we missed it by like $100,000. So instead of having 50%, year over year growth, we had 47% year over year growth or whatever it was, and our CEO kind of came back from the holidays. And he was like, I was so distracted that we didn't hit this goal, and over indexed on the timeline, that I didn't even think about all of the things we achieved as a team, despite not hitting that number by that timeline. And by the way, by the end of q1, you know, we were kind of back where we needed to needed to be that's like a Really good lesson in perspective that I've been taking, like, sometimes you don't hit the number in the timeframe, but you can still do great things and it still matters. And you have to gut check yourself around that.

Doug Davidoff 10:13
There. There are two things on that that I'll I'll piggyback on, which I think is the reason for the timeline is so that people can think and so you can release dopamine. Dopamine is what causes us to look forward to things and it's the most addictive substance on the planet. When there's no clear timeline, there's no dopamine, there's no anticipation. There's very little note, you know it so you don't motivate. But the goal, like the truth of a good SMART goal, isn't did you achieve the SMART goal? It's what did you achieve? Because you saw to achieve the SMART goal, right? And we get so telescoped into like, you actually went a different course I thought you were gonna say that the CEO came back and said, last year was a failure. We didn't so thankfully that I've seen too many people that do that. Here's the other thing that I was going to share for us. I'll give you a bad real business story. First time we did a major CRM migration implementation. This was probably about three years ago, we thought we knew what we were doing. And we did not there was so much that, that we didn't know that we didn't know and holy cow, did we? Am I allowed to cuss on this episode? We messed it up. We messed it up. Okay. And I mean, now we pulled it out for the client, and it was okay. They did not do more work with us. But it was okay. We lost money in it. Because I had the commitment. The team was down. Because it was just a shit show. And I look at them. And I'm like, why you guys down? Look at what we pulled off. I'm like, No, doggy. We like this one wrong. We lost one. I'm like, Yeah, but we didn't know any of that. Like, we can't get mad at ourselves that we screwed up because we didn't know. Right. And so we were like, this is what I still look at it is one of our most successful programs, because we did a we pulled it out, that enabled us to do the next thing. And that'll enable us to do the next thing. And now I'm, as a matter of fact, I the video that I was putting together, George was for an insanely complicated migration implementation where where I'm explaining to them, Look, here's four places that you guys don't realize there's massive unknowns, and you won't know them until we're there. So like, I can now predict that. And I would not have been able to do that we would not be able to do that if we hadn't done you know, if we hadn't had that mess. And the trouble is, if you have that experience, and you've defined it as a failure and this you assert you associate negativity to it, you're it's it's bad. Stay away from it, stay away from it. And you know, and then we go I don't understand why are people aren't motivated. So So again, like we had this SMART goal that we whiffed on, I mean, like we didn't miss it by 100,000. We missed it by like, like we didn't miss it by like, 10%. We missed it by like 150%. And it was so so again, that's where I say you really got to look at the input. Did you have a good at bat? Did you play a good hand? Not Did you win the hand because all kinds of things happen outside.

Juli Durante 13:28
So there's this great episode of a podcast that I listened to you once. The podcast is really like a health fitness wellness podcast. It's the the wag podcast, which is I working against gravity, which is a nutrition coaching company, I have in the past been a client of theirs. And part of their process for nutrition coaching is a weekly check in your weekly check in you fill out a survey with like 20 different questions. But the name of this podcast episode is the 15 measures of progress. And it's their approach to like fitness, nutrition, weight loss, etc, is that you can't have one marker of progress, you can have one number, because if anyone here has ever tried to lose weight in the world, which I think is like almost everyone I've ever met in my whole life. Sometimes you have this Yeah, big one for me. It's not a linear journey, right? It's not, you know, I'm gonna lose this many ounces every day for this amount of time. And then all of a sudden, I've reached this goal. It's you know, some weeks you a more some days, you had Chinese food for dinner, right? We have all of these different things. So they look at literally 15 different metrics week by week. And their system, like charts them out for you and gives you all of this data, but it's about thinking about progress and success in different ways. Right? So if you're on a wellness journey, maybe one week you gained weight, but it turns out you've been in the gym a lot and your body is retaining fluids because you're trying to rebuild your muscles and by the way, you took that progress photo and week to week, there's this visible difference in how you look. And you also rate how you feel how stressed you are, right. So they're all of these different indicators. And I like to pull in that approach, especially when I'm looking at my team performance from a management standpoint is like, we can't just look at one thing and hyper focus there, because there's all this other stuff that you need to think about.

George Thomas 15:25
Alright, so by the way, I asked one question, I just want everybody who's listening this to realize, I asked one question, and we've gone for 10, maybe 15 minutes, I asked, How do you measure success? And, and by the way, before I get into kind of why I asked that I've been, I've been, you know, fighting against gravity my entire life. So I give a hands up to that whole weight loss thing as well. And actually, this is where my mind went was the journey that I'm on, which is a personal journey of weight loss of lost 70 pounds, I'm on my way to trying to get 183. And it's like, how do I measure success? And I wanted to ask this question, because we could quickly get into, this is a business podcast, we're going to talk about analytics, we're going to talk about analysis, we're going to talk about all the things that you should have in place. And what I historically have talked about the reporting inside of HubSpot, I've said you can measure your success or your failure, on or off, good or bad. And here's the thing, what I wanted to kind of dig into and what we have mentioned in the last 10 or 15 minutes is are we really trying to measure the success or failure of a business? Or are we trying to measure the progress over time, right? And a lot of the articles because by the way, we put three articles in here, they talk about weekly reporting, monthly reporting, yearly reporting, and that reporting is actually the progress that happens over time. So how are we positioning ourselves? And this is my kind of second question here. How are we positioning our reporting? And our analyzing to our potential clients isn't as Hey, we're going to show you every month success or failure of what we've done for you? Or are we positioning our reporting and analysis as Hey, we're going to show you the progress or the setbacks that we've faced over the last 30 days, there's a huge difference. I'm going to be quiet and let you guys wax poetic on your thoughts with that,

Max Cohen 17:35
can I give one little tiny thing is because I want to hear what you guys have to say about like, you know, talking to your clients about this stuff. But let me let me put a disclaimer on this. reporting and analytics within HubSpot is 100%. My biggest weak spot like I'm not a numbers guy, despite my hat, right. But the the one piece of advice, I always give customers or anyone using HubSpot, using any of their reporting or analytics tools, especially when you're building a dashboard, or you're creating a custom report or whatever it may be. It's hard for me to compare HubSpot reporting tools to other tools out there because I've very, very limited like experience with, you know, the stuff that's outside of it. But you know, it can be easy to build some things in HubSpot, it can be very, very tough to build certain reports in HubSpot, just as I imagine it would be in any other program. And that can take a lot of mental calories, it can take a lot of time, it can build a lot of frustration. The biggest thing I always tell people is like if you're going to take the time to build some sort of custom report in HubSpot or collect some sort of data made sure like you understand the story, it's going to tell you and you you can answer the question of why I'm I'm building this number, why I'm building this report why I'm building this dashboard. Because you don't want to spend a lot of times on reports that aren't really going to give you a whole ton in return. Because that time can be better spent, you know elsewhere either on other reports that are more useful for you or something else like writing a blog post or an email, whatever it may be. Students always like to start with why when it comes to like building any sort of customer reports in HubSpot, so like you know, that time is well spent. That's the one thing I'll say no,

Juli Durante 19:07
I think that's great, Matt. I just had a team member who is doing her first like big annual client report. She was working through it. And she like I think I've spent 15 hours on this. And I said, Good, right, this shouldn't take you two hours, you're asking a lot of questions. And that kind of why piece of the puzzle, I think is the most important part of analysis in general. I've seen a lot of bad marketing reports. I've seen so many bad marketing reports. I've seen so many, you know, dashboards that are supposed to serve as analysis like Well, here's the numbers. The numbers are great. What do they mean and why do I care about them? And why are we sharing them with a client? And what are we using that data to do in the future? I very seldom focus a report or an analysis project on the current state. The point of looking at where things are, where things have been, is to help define where things need to go. And I do work that around some type of business success metric, or set of metrics or whatever they are, I think they're their guidelines. And they should be a guiding light, right? If I have a company who says, Well, we need to grow X percent over the next year. And then my analysis is, well, where are you now? And what are the levers we can pull to help you get there? And how will these things potentially work together? And where might there be holes in the current strategy, past strategy, or where might we need to build things for the future, but it should take a long time, it should be challenging, because the whole idea of reporting and analysis should be easy. And you should just know it should be work. It should be real work real, as you said, Max mental calories. And HubSpot is great. There are some you know, great new reporting functionality. There's some beta reporting functionality and things like that, I almost always have to pull data out of at least one system. And always use more than one platform and a deep analysis project. So like, I have to be able to get it into Excel, there are going to be pivot tables, I will need to cross reference and look at things and how they're going in Google Analytics versus HubSpot, versus this school versus that tool. I've played the data box game and put things into dashboards to bring the data together at some point, you do have to kind of separately dig in. And I usually say to my team, start with the big picture and the story of what you've seen happening, and then ask why like 57 times, and then when you have 57 reasons why things are happening, you should have 57 strategies moving forward.

George Thomas 21:53
Yeah, yeah, there's so much that I love about that. And it even ties into what Max said, Because Julie, and in your original story, by the way, when I asked the question about success, it was like you're gleaning into this multiple multiple metrics, right? There's multiple metrics that you're measuring by. And there's really multiple views that you're allowing yourself to look at those metrics at. Right? And, and I might even just throw in here, I'm gonna throw a little wrench into the system. That I would say, reporting, actually, is probably easy, because a lot of reporting is automated, the analysis part of it, right? So the analytics is easy. The analysis is difficult part. And I want to actually pull out a piece of one of the articles because by the way, the links are in the show notes, we want you to go check out these articles. But I want to pull out a piece that's in one of those articles that for me, by the way, Doug, not that I have an infatuation with you. But when I read this part, I was like, damn it, dog. Right. So I love you. Here's the thing. I love you, brother. All right. But here's the thing out of the article, the first core component of web analytics reporting is merely organizing data into summaries. On the other hand analysis is the process of inspecting, cleaning, transforming and modeling these summaries reports with the goal of the highlighting useful information. Simply put, reporting translates data into information while analysis turns information into insights. And if you listened last episode, you realize we talked about insights. And so this is where I go, I'm like, dang, gonna, we talked about building insights, knowing your core insights, your reporting, should actually lean into what some of those insights are. Anyway, this becomes a ball of wax where we think about or some may think about just reporting as reporting. And Julie, while you do really great at this, like, you're the analysis side, like frickin ninja. I have trained people where I showed them the data. And I know at gut level right now, they should be freaking out. And they look at the numbers and have no clue the analysis part that is tied to the numbers that they're seeing.

Doug Davidoff 24:22
I want to caution. I want to caution a couple of things. This whole this whole insane obsession with data driven, is candidly making us dumber, right? What is the data tell us? Do you know what the real answer is? What would you like the data to tell us? data and statistics are far more like a lamppost for a drunk, used for support, not elimination. So we're also mixing three things together, we're talking to them like they're like they're even in the same family when they're not They might be in the same genome, but they're not the same family. And that is, we're talking about reports, we're talking about reporting. And we're talking about analysis. There are three distinct things with three distinctly different jobs

that we do from so I run a whole number of reports when I'm managing a sales team, that are versions of flash reports, which basically says, You know, I operate it like pilot flies a plane, you've got in Norman out of norm, and in a sales or marketing situation out of norm can be out of norm high, or out of norm low. By the way I did this when I was a financial adviser. One of the reasons that people lose a whole lot of money, and they're going to lose a whole lot of money coming up soon is because all the money that's been made in very few stocks in the last year, you know, all the people who have been really stupid to put all their money in one place have shot up, if you go back to 1999, the munder net net fun, which was like 30 of all internet funds was up 150%. In three years, it was up like 1,000%. In 2000, it lost 90% of its value. When do you think 90% of the money went into the monitor net net fun, the three months before it lost 90% of its value, right? Because no one looked and said, Well, I'm investing in the thunder net net fund, because I think it's going to be up 15% and then it was up 55%. And no one said, holy cow, guys, we're wrong here. We were wrong. We thought it was going to be up 15 it turned out to be 55. Here's what most people do they go, yes, we were up 55%. So we got a target of 50% growth this year. We grew 35%. Everyone's like celebration. We beat it. I'm like, No, why are we celebrating? We were wrong, we were massively wrong. Why were we wrong? We have this assumption that when we're wrong on the upside, it's because of us. But then when we're wrong on the downside, well, it's the environment. So So the way I run a sales team, and the way I run a day to day is that we have in norm out of norm. What I want to do is I'm gonna be able to look at a report and go, yep, all right, each rep is working the right number of contacts, each rep is working the right number here, oh, here, like, so I want to look at a report and my takeaway is nothing, nothing to take away. That's what I get 90% of what happened here. What happened here, what's Is that something I need to pay attention to. So that's, that's kind of where reports leads to reporting. And if you want to get to analysis, you can't train somebody to do analysis by focusing on reporting, because there's a there's a prerequisite to analysis, you need to have some experience. And, and, and, and a mind for it, because it's a different, it is a different talent. It's not a skill, it's a talent. A lot of it can be learned, but it's a town. But here's the other thing that is the absolute, you cannot do analysis, that means anything, don't get me wrong, you can do analysis, cheaper than phase, if you don't have a hypothesis going into it. Right? What's the hypothesis? See, if you didn't have a clear expectation of what was gonna happen and why you were doing it, then when you look at the data, and it can tell you whatever you want it to tell you and nine times out of 10. Guys, reversion to the mean is the number one predictor of of the future. So if you're doing great on the upside, I got news for you, the chances of you underperforming. I was talking to a sales rep his forecast. He's like up 100% in his monthly forecast, but then he's off 70%. And he's getting killed by his manager, because his forecasting is off. And I said, Well, when you were up 100%, did you change the forecast for the next month? No, I actually increased it. Well, that was foolish. reversion to the means. Number one, lock guys, luck has let's half the game. Right? The outcome of your life is decision quality. And look, we can't control luck, we can control decision quality. Why do we do analysis to be able to make better decisions, great poker players, they're going to lose to inferior players. This is why I say people say business is chess. Business is not chess. Chess is a game of perfect information. The better player wins every time unless the better player makes a big mistake. Poker is a game of lack of information. Poker is a game of probabilities. So you said George, it's zero or one. Its success or failure. I've got news for everybody life is between zero and one. Do you know how big the difference is between zero and one infinity exists between zero and one. That's where we live. Which is why I goes back to my success definition. Right? So if you want to have analysis, that means something. You got to know why you did it. And I'll finish this with with the final story. If anybody remembers the Super Bowl between this, the Seahawks and the Patriots. Pete Carroll got lambasted for for throwing Pass on third down from the one yard line. Because the Patriots intercepted, and they won the game.

That was actually the right call. He was unequivocally the right decision that had a bad outcome. By the way, when he was on the Today Show, and they asked him, How could you make that call? Carol explained why he made that call. And everyone was like, Can you believe this arrogant piece of whatever, he can't even admit that he was wrong? Right, except when you look at you, when you look at the percent of the scenarios that happen, what's going on all those other things, you realize, wait, that was a good call. And you know what, you know why Pete Carroll in the Seattle Seahawks are still at the top and are, you know, one of the top contenders to be in the Super Bowl, because he didn't let the outcome he didn't let the luck part of the equation, impact his ability to make decisions. And I'm going to tell you, most people are going to look at what happened and go Okay, well, don't ever do that again. Because it was bad. I remember I'm talking to when when my son was playing youth baseball. All of a sudden, the picture, my son was a catcher, the pitcher wasn't throwing the pitches that we were calling, he wouldn't throw the changeup. And so I go out. And I said, so will I understand, you don't want to throw the changeup. He's like, no, cuz I don't wanna throw a changeup. I'm like, Why? Because the last change up, I threw, they hit it really hard. You know, he hit a double, I'm like, what was the last pitch, he threw a fastball? Well, he just hit a triple, right? So they're hitting like, they're gonna hit your pitches, okay? And, and again, that's that resulting aspect. So you have to have that hypothesis, that lead which go into Max's point that drives reporting and then to, and I'm sure, Julie, what you're doing is you're looking at and you're like, Okay, here's what we thought was gonna happen. Here's this what's Okay, what could this mean? Hey, let's test that out. I'm also going to bet that you don't go. Okay. So we thought this and we were wrong. It's we thought this, we saw that we're now going to test this, right. And so the best best best performers in business in life, they don't live in right or wrong. Right? It's, it's okay. It's all about progress and journey. And and, and by the way, this is the last thing because I wanted to say something earlier. There's a rhythm to to measuring, right. And so one of the things that happens, and I see this all the time we do weekly reporting, we review the sales team on a weekly basis. Well guess what your sales cycle doesn't operate on a weekly cadence. Right? So now you're now you're creating this stress. And the trouble with humans is if you put data in front of them, and they're their decision, they're they're motivated to do something, I see something, I've got to do something, I've got to do something. Hardest lesson I learned as a financial advisor, it made my clients a lot of money, I was nine times out of 10, the best decision I could make was do nothing. Mm hmm. Despite everything that I'm seeing, that's going Oh, no, she like so I stayed out of the internet at fun. I stayed out of this, I stayed out of this, right. And if you take a look at what happened over the course of the life of my client, they did Far, far better than that, then through other options, because you're looking to manage decision quality. That's the only reason to report that's the only reason to do analysis is to be able to improve the decisions that you're making.

George Thomas 33:10
There's I have so I have so little time and so many questions. That's that's the problem that I'm I'm faced with right now. Because we're literally at like the time of our podcast. But here's the thing, there are three great articles that I want people to dive into, after thinking about it, because I knew that this was gonna go in a different direction I and I hope people pick out like words that are important, right? Multiple metrics having hypothesis in the pursuit of right, it's the journey, like we've talked about that. So much good stuff came out of heading in a different direction for this, that we haven't even talked about, other than me pulling one little piece of the article. So I'm gonna close up this way. And I'm just gonna ask, was there anything in the articles? Julie, we'll start with you, Max, we'll go to you, Doug, we'll finish with you. Anything in the article that or articles that you want to point out that people should head into listen to pay attention to as they kind of move forward out of this episode.

Juli Durante 34:18
I think if people read the articles and over index on any one thing from them, it would be that reporting and analysis are not the same. Fight that fight every day.

Max Cohen 34:28
I liked how that first article talked about, you know, reporting leads to value, like everything you should be doing with your reporting should lead to some sort of valuable outcome that helps you in one way, shape or form, do better at what you're trying to do better at right. Just always make sure you're not just measuring something for the sake of measuring it, do it with a purpose.

Doug Davidoff 34:48
My takeaways kind of a little bit more meta than that. We had three articles that looked at the topic from three distinctly different places, and together they fail to make a dent on the hair of the bubble that we call Reporting analytics analysis etc. Which is to say like, don't get lost in this, you know, it's progress. It's not perfection. It's, you know, stop trying to do it all just get better just be a little bit better. You know what, here's something I'll give you an even easier just be a little less bad at it. The Chicago Cubs won the World Series on Joe Maddon saying, the last thing he said is, Hey, guys, try not to suck today. The seals operate on the mantra suck less, right? Just every day, little bits of improving your decision quality that comes together. So yeah, there's good stuff in all those pieces. Pick one thing to focus on and do that then worry about the other stuff. That's my favorite.

George Thomas 35:36
Yeah. One decision were things better. Yeah, exactly. One step one decision. I love it. I love it. You know, it's funny, because when people I talked to him, I'm like, Look, you don't get out of bed in the morning and just appear in the bathroom. You got to get there one step at a time. And that's anything in life. It's one, one better thing. One less as Doug said it one less suckier thing. Hey, remember to go ahead and use the hashtags hashtag the spot, or the spot podcast hashtag sprocket talk, make sure that you hit us up at real Julie D at Doug Davidoff at max Jacob Cohen. And of course, I'm your friend, your buddy, your co at George B Thomas. And hey, listen to this again, because there's about 27 rewind, double moments, go check out those articles and we'll see you in the next episode.