The Spot EP12: Sales Content, SEO, Ads, and more

 

Ready, Spot, Go

In this episode of The Spot, we talk about how much we lave articles written for SEO, Ads, and done in partnership. Ok, maybe we don't love it but, we sure have some thoughts on it.

Let's buckle up and get into the good stuff.

That Hit The Spot

This week's article is one that causes a little controversy on the show. Make sure you read the article and give us your thoughts.
Might I suggest you read it and then listen to the episode? 😱

Here's What Sales Leaders Should Prioritize in 2021 According to a Sandler Expert

Doug also drops a great book title that you may want to check out.
Until We Spot Again

Make sure you connect with The Spot team. Let us know your thoughts on the shows so far.

  • Juli:@realjulid
  • Doug: @dougdavidoff
  • Max: @maxjacobcohen
  • George: @georgeBThomas

Make sure to use the hashtag #sprockettalk or #thespotpodcast.

Audio

About the Expert

The Spot Hosts

Juli Durante is an always-curious marketer interested in the big picture of marketing and sales to help companies drive big revenue. A HubSpot user since 2011, Juli’s deep understanding of inbound marketing campaigns furthers Impulse Creative’s mission of helping businesses grow better.

Doug is the founder and CEO of Imagine Business Development. He’s directly advised more than a dozen companies who have successfully sold for a combined value of more than $1 billion.

For more than 20 years, Doug has been advising small and mid-market companies that are committed to serious growth who want to hear the truth about achieving it. Doug’s worked, firsthand, with more than 1,500 companies (and seen their financial statements), so he knows the difference between what works, and what sounds good and doesn’t work.

Max Cohen started at HubSpot in 2015 as an Implementation Specialist on the Customer Onboarding team after four years on Apple's Business Team.  He joined HubSpot's Learning and Development team as a Product Trainer in 2018 and is currently a Facilitator for HubSpot Foundations, which is HubSpot's new hire onboarding program.  When he's not coaching new HubSpotters on the HubSpot product and the Inbound Methodology, he coaches New England Infamous, a competitive paintball team.  You can learn more about Max and find ways to connect with him by going to maxjacobcohen.com.

George B. Thomas is an Inbound Marketing Marketer, Video Jedi and HubSpot Certified Trainer with more than 25 years of sales and marketing experience. He leads the Impulse Creative crew in HubSpot certifications with 19 including Inbound, Email, Contextual, and Content Marketing.

George utilizes his love of teaching and learning to help companies find their way to growth via workshops, speaking engagements, business audits, and of course, Sprocket Talk.

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Full Transcript

George Thomas 0:05
Are you a HubSpot user looking to stay up to date with HubSpot, inbound, and all the information that will make your job easier and help you and your company grow better? Each week the spot brings you the HubSpot, education, ideas, and tools that you need to maximize your success. Make Work just a little bit easier and of course, brighten your day along the way. Listen in as Julie, Doug, Max, and George share their authentic entertaining and valuable conversations with the people who really matter. That's right you, ladies and gentlemen, let's give it up for your HubSpot journey heroes. Welcome to this week's episode of the spot. Ready spot. go here we go with another episode of the spot. And I'm super excited today. I'm always excited to be honest with you, Julie, we usually don't do this. But give me one thing first off that you can say was amazing. About your week this week?

Unknown Speaker 0:59
Oh, well, I'm

Juli Durante 1:00
super unprepared to answer that question because I didn't know is coming. One amazing thing about my week this week. One of my favorite meetings of my week, every week is the inbound stand up that we have an impulse creative. And this week, we talked about new things that we did in HubSpot this week. And we talked about client recommendations and wins and things that we could do to help our clients be more successful based on trends and data that we're seeing in their current performance. So that was definitely a bright spot because I like talking about all things marketing, HubSpot, etc.

George Thomas 1:35
Doug, what was great meeting

Unknown Speaker 1:38
right now.

George Thomas 1:39
No, no, you can't back up. You already. Just you you out there. You said just thing, Doug, what is just a moment in this week that you would say that was awesome.

Doug Davidoff 1:49
The opportunity to spend time with you, George.

George Thomas 1:52
See, see this guy right here? board? Yeah, we should just end the pod.

Doug Davidoff 2:00
I had, we had three opportunities. find their way to me. It's always good. I'm a sales guy. Right? I like we had three good opportunities that we have three bonafide middle, the middle of the pipeline fully, like probably before the end of the year, and they all found their way to me. Yeah, yeah, abs. One of them, by the way, is somebody who's worked with us actually, two times before. Nice. Now my favorite, my favorite new business. My favorite new business is when an existing customer adds new business. My second favorite new business is when someone who worked with you in the past comes back to you and says, Hey, we want to work with you. Or we hey, we've got this, how can you help us? And then my third favorite form of new businesses, any other type of new business?

George Thomas 2:43
Yes, you you definitely are the sales guy on this podcast. I will say that like just that love the last five, two minutes, whatever it was, you are the sales guy. So I will say a bright mama for me was I was

Doug Davidoff 2:56
like five. That's my that's my guy.

George Thomas 2:59
I would tell you, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to talk about on this episode. Because I know there's two episodes coming. Because Doug dropped like a couple Hey, we should do an episode on that. We should do an episode on that in the last episode, those are coming. But I was like, What am I want to talk about? In the spot, whatever. When I get Julie's thoughts on Doug's thoughts on and also had this bright moment of my week, as I was thinking about this, this article, rolled past my inbox, and I started to chuckle. And I mean, it was a moment of joy when I saw the title of this article, and I said, I said Thank You, Lord, because I can only guess what Doug is going to have to say about this article. So let me go and read it. Yep. Yep, check, check. Okay, it's gone in the note. So with that said, we are talking today about a blog, which I don't typically pick blogs off of HubSpot. I try not to I try to go here or there or somewhere else, but it's a HubSpot blog. And it is, here's what sales leaders duck. Are you a sales leader? That's a long silence. I've been waiting all week to ask you that question. Are you a sales leader?

Doug Davidoff 4:15
That's not for me to say,

George Thomas 4:17
Okay answer for other

Doug Davidoff 4:18
people to say if I'm a sales leader, there you go. I

George Thomas 4:20
love that. I love that. Here's what sales leaders should prioritize, which is a powerful word that people probably read right past in 2021, according to the Sandler expert, so so Doug, I don't know if I should start with you if I should start with Julie or where we should go here. So I guess maybe, just give me because I know you're gonna want to dive in. Doug is like, okay, folks, you should be

Unknown Speaker 4:48
watching this on video.

George Thomas 4:49
You should be watching the podcast because Doug disappeared somehow, like there was just a hat that was there for a minute. Doug talked me through a lot. Little bit of wind when you saw this article when you read this article, what your where your brain went? Good stuff. Total bag doodoo. Like, what do you got for us?

Doug Davidoff 5:13
So my, what was my first thought? Yeah, you're my guide. I had three first thoughts. I hate this time of year and content. I hate SEO. And seriously. So So what I'll say overall, I'll let you guys comment first. Because I mean, I don't want to be a hater. And I know how hard it is to create content, and everything else. So I don't want to. And there's some good stuff in there. But I hate this time of year because, you know, here's my question. I read the I read the blog post, and I want to know, when was this not a priority? Right? Like, this is priority for 2021, which makes it sound like hey, there's something dear like here's what's, there's nothing in there that didn't apply to 2020 2019 1984 1974. And it doesn't it and why am I gonna you know, why is it February? Right? I hate SEO. Why is by a Sandler expert? What does that have to do with anything? Well, that's, hey, let's go. Let's go for some SEO juice. And then I'll give you the seriously later but yeah, that was my,

George Thomas 6:20
I'm just gonna throw out there that I did my job. Because I got right there. Kind of what I wanted to know, I like I can't wait to dig in deeper, I want to really know, like, the good, the bad, the ugly. And I may have picked this article because I was using it. I wanted to. Yeah, I want a litmus test of like, there's there's this as a marketer, I'm used to looking at HubSpot content. So if I want to lean into the world of sales, many marketers are gonna be like me, they're gonna lean into the sales blog, they're gonna read these things. They're trying to understand their sales team, they're trying to merge and do this word that I hate, which is marketing. And so I'm like, hey, on the spot, I'm gonna bring this up. Because this could be a litmus test of like, be careful what you're reading. What's the good, the bad, the ugly, so I'm not. I'm not mad that you may be a hater after this episode. I'm just gonna throw that out there. But Julie, let's go from like, the human, like anthropology, like super data, organized, structured person that you are, when you were kind of reading through this similar thoughts to Doug, different thoughts to Doug, as far as like, first snapshot response? Yeah, I

Juli Durante 7:37
don't know if I have like a human element take on this right now. Um, my my thought was, you know, this doesn't feel super unique new pushing the envelope. Again, I think we have a use case where, much to the the piece that Doug says he hates SEO, right? The the better title for this could be like, why the best, like sales trends for 2021 are the things you've been doing all along. Right, that would be maybe a more interesting angle. But I know people write content like this with a year in it, because Google likes it, people search for it, they want to know what they should do an extra like I get that piece of the puzzle. And the fact that this was based on an interview with a single person, very much stood out in the article to me, right, we get a lot of Suzy Andrews perspective. And when I got to point number five, which is used the bat triangle, this is very much a PR driven article to me. Right? This is some type of either co marketing or public relations pitch that got through to the writer that turned into this thing. And in a vacuum. I don't always know if that's my favorite type of content. Right? I love content that takes multiple perspectives. I love content where you have some dissent or multiple opinions, right? Think about some of the posts that data box does, where they crowdsource content, they put things together, and you're able to see what 50 sales leaders say about X, Y, or Z, I sometimes see more value in that I often see more value in that than one perspective, because this seems like it's here to introduce this success triangle, the Sandler tool for sales leaders specifically, right, it's folded into the middle. But like, that's the talking point here. And that's really what we're getting at. And we're using 2021 perspectives to get there. So my skeptical reader marketing person who's done it brain is like, well, is this really existing to be this great article that's going to help everyone or is it existing to introduce the Sandler methodology? Yeah, so

George Thomas 9:56
I want that. Yeah. I love it. I love it. And it's funny. Because this is exactly where I wanted to go with this, I want to circle back around on something that we hit before we kind of started talking about, like, it's not pushing the edge. It's not cutting edge. It's not like it's SEO. I want to circle back around here later on, like, your guyses feeling of your content, needing to always push the envelope be the latest and greatest versus, should it can it just be an educational piece? Or should it always be lean in that direction? We'll get there. We'll get there. Hopefully, we'll get there. Well,

Unknown Speaker 10:35
you know, I

Unknown Speaker 10:35
thought I wanted Okay, I

Unknown Speaker 10:36
want to go there is a lot of thoughts on that.

George Thomas 10:39
But but here's my thing. And again, I I it could just be me people, it could just be me. I could live under a rock First of all, no, I didn't know what Sandler is. So there's that I knew what that was like. Okay, Sandler. Okay, okay. But I got down to Julie and I'm so glad you brought this up. I got down to point five. And I'm like,

Unknown Speaker 11:01
Wait, what?

George Thomas 11:03
What the actual Frick, what? Like I've heard of BANT. And I've heard of like, you know, 17 other letters that things in VA should do in sales. But I'm like, bat bat is this the Halloween edition? Is this the SportsCenter like what is what is bad? Like has bad always been a thing? Doug has bad thing.

Doug Davidoff 11:29
behavior. It took me Come on. I understand that. But

George Thomas 11:31
it wasn't always named bad. Did somebody literally say this is a good idea? We're gonna call this bad. Oh,

Juli Durante 11:38
no, marketers like an acronym.

Doug Davidoff 11:40
Come on. No, who likes acronym for the marketers, as people?

Juli Durante 11:48
We love and methodology around here.

George Thomas 11:50
So So here's the thing. So I immediately was like, What the frick is bat like, this is this is stupid. Now, the what it is isn't stupid. And that's kind of where I wanted to get Doug to maybe dive in a little bit about this whole behavioral like thing if he wants to, like, I know that face look like he didn't want to but but I'm like, I'm like, okay, does this. I think it's stupid. But I understand. And so, anyway, that for me was where I'm like, I'm, again I chuckled. I it was my remember, we started this podcast. This was my moment of joy this week, where I got to this part of the article, I thought of Doug, I chuckled, and I said, I'm just I gotta go there. We got to go there this week.

Doug Davidoff 12:35
I saw the article before you put it in the notes for us. And I'm like, boy, I wonder what George is gonna George Georgia thing I think of this one. And then I saw you had it in the in the show notes. And I was like,

Juli Durante 12:45
oh, man, can I just I know, George, this is that acronym is not your favorite. Um, I think that one thing that my human brain does pick up on there is different frameworks, analogies, metaphors, acronyms, whatever it is work for different people. And I will not say I am a sales leader at all, I will not say I have been an in the trenches sales person as a primary role ever. But for me, right, if a different version of something if a different spin on the same theme, helps something connect with someone and helps them do their job better. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, even if it doesn't work for someone else. Right? Like, maybe I don't remember that easier than band or something like that? Well, well, first off, they're

Doug Davidoff 13:35
two totally unrelated thing, which by the way for, I would say for Sandler to name their thing that not being aware that people are going to associate it with BANT having so once a behavioral model one's a qualification criteria. They're totally unrelated, which is it? But so here's the other thing, right? And so first off, this says, priority, right priorities for sales leaders. And so they're saying the priority, the number five priority for the sales leader is used the bat triangle. Okay, so now you've just got me a little bit tweet, because you've told me my priority is to use your not not, you know, not prioritize coaching, prioritize support, you know, and and what we do is use but by the way, if you want to know what that is, you have to like go yet you have to read the entire quote. And they have an image in there that I don't know if the image has value or not, with a link to the image source. So you click on the image source, you know, where the image source takes you, not to the image, but to Sanders homepage. So there number five priority is Why don't you say hire Sandler? Like at least don't? Yeah, right. Yeah. So it actually, I mean, I gotta tell you, and I'm sorry. You know, I've seen the writer who wrote this. She's written good stuff. I'm not going to call her out. But I'm going to call it HubSpot. This is an app. This is not anything Yeah. And you know, the and by the way, Julie, you nailed it. It's a co marketing piece they co marketed with Sandler on the sales enablement 2021. report with with with Sandler and Gong. Yeah. And and they gave them an ad.

Juli Durante 15:11
Now here's the thing. I mean, it's a great PR when or ad whether, you know, ad is money changed hands. And if this is madness, not just flow, that's a different conversation. But we can call it like a PR win a co marketing, whatever we want to say, right? There's mutual investment in this. It's a great PR win for Sandler right there. they've achieved their goal of getting this placement.

Doug Davidoff 15:32
Well, they achieve their goal, because we're talking about it. But

George Thomas 15:35
yeah, but the fact is, if we can, if we can smell it out, like is it a win, right? And you're right, Doug, we're talking about it, but we're not talking about it like Oh, man, we love this so much. We're kind of talking about how this is almost like a backhanded attempt. And what's funny is just to go see even more sideways. Number one, by the way, uses the word transparency. Well, this article is transparent. It's a transparent ad that you're like trying to get us to go to your homepage, which is like, well,

Doug Davidoff 16:02
well, you know what, you know, it. It's really, like a bad leader is transparent, who thinks that they're hiding something, right? I mean, transparent would have been the title would have been 988 priorities and one commercial that you've heard eight priorities that you that people have been telling you for 10 years, and one commercial. The thing is, can it be smelled out? You know, frankly, I didn't think about it this deeply until I knew we were going to talk about it. I kind of looked at it was like, platitude, planet to planet to planet to planet to planet to planet deep latitude. Okay? Yeah. Oh, it's Oh, it's that time of the year, the the trend for 2021 posts are coming out. And then we reviewed it. So I started looking at it, I got any, by the way, I don't even realize the the image source took me to Sandler's homepage, until I clicked on it like a second ago, because I'm like, well, maybe there's something in the image. Like they don't even make the image readable. So from from a take on value standpoint, the problem is, I don't think people do smell it out or think about it. I think it's a it's this noise of content. Right? And it's, there's no, it just, it goes into the noise. And it goes into the on Yeah, all this stuff is Bs, right? Or something that, you know, that it's, I mean, candidly, it's at the center of why trust is is, you know, continues, increasingly drops down. The, you know, the first law of propaganda is create confusion about everything. Um, it doesn't matter how crazy what you're saying is, as long as it makes everything feel like it's crazy, because then you don't listen to anything. And now you know it, you know, we kind of lose some truth. So I think it plugs into the problem that we're having in terms of finding because we've got three credible sources, right, we've got the writer who's credible, we've got Sandler who's credible, we've got HubSpot. He's credible. And it's like, Oh, okay. Yep.

George Thomas 17:55
Yeah, yet we end up where we're at. So So now let's because Julie, you've been waiting, you've been instant, anticipating,

Unknown Speaker 18:01
let's circle back or anything?

George Thomas 18:03
Yeah, let's circle back around. And and if the three things don't match, where I'm going, do your three things. And then we'll go where I want to go? Because I do want to circle back around to this, like, should your content always be cutting edge? Should it be pushing the envelope? You know, are there things like this that you should just not do? should do? Do they have a place like, Julie, what are your thoughts?

Juli Durante 18:26
Great. So that's kind of actually my first thing is, I don't think the content of this article is really content. That's for a sales leader. Again, I'm not one. But because we've all sort of felt this feeling of this stuff that's always applicable. My gut is the content of this article, maybe is for someone who doesn't have a specific sales background. So maybe you're a CEO, or a founder, who is hiring a sales team or a sales person, and you don't have sales leadership. And you need to know some of that and HubSpot has some content, kind of to that persona. I think we were just looking at misalignment. And that's really to me the key with content is am I writing the right title content, etc. for the person who would be reading it?

Doug Davidoff 19:18
I don't, I don't think it's written for that. I think it's written for one reason, one reason. I don't necessarily is not VR, so I'm not going PR I'm not gonna be here. Hmm. This is all SEO. This is all if you read it. Everything in it is about SEO. It's about it's about driving search traffic. And it's about getting a click on to the on to the call to action for the sales and this is all about promoting sales enablement report, it says enablement 2021 report. This is all SEO it's not written to an executive.

Juli Durante 19:47
No, I'm saying it's not written to an executive but the

Doug Davidoff 19:50
CEO, it's not been to a non sales oriented CEO. It's not. It's not useful there either. It's it's just, it's it's SEO.

George Thomas 19:57
So here's my question.

Juli Durante 19:59
Yeah. optimized it like, Oh, good,

Unknown Speaker 20:02
not well,

George Thomas 20:03
well, here's my question because if Julie like I'm not gonna disagree with you, it's written for somebody. That's, that's my question who the heck's is written for? And, and, and Google? Well, but here's the thing, Google don't give two squats about the sales enable report. Like you've got this offer down here a sales enablement report, you've got this article, which one would think that it is pulling in like the sales professional, the CEO, like Julie saying, so then we can get to that,

Doug Davidoff 20:31
it might there might be one more, there might be one other, there might be other it might be. It's written for fulfilling a commitment. The commitment was, we're going to do a co marketing post with Sandler. And as part of this marketing program, we're going to have a blog on and we interviewed. And I'm going to try not to let my bias come through. But I wouldn't be surprised if in the effort of creating content in a co created way, what they got was a whole bunch of commercial. And so what they tried to do was to put some lipstick on a pig to try to open it up to make it something a little bit more than cotton. But it's one of those two things, man, because it's just not. If you're a sales executive, you're a sales leader, you're either if you're not familiar with this stuff, you're either too small for it to matter. If you're a significant sales executive, then it's like, okay, plan if you plan to platitude, and if you're a non sales oriented CEO, then they're using such language that you wouldn't even understand it, you won't you won't capture to it. And and it's not written from the CEO to the right. And, by the way, you know, I mean, I don't want to break down the construct of it. But that's I mean, I agree. I mean, I fundamentally agree with you. Yeah. You're trying to find like, what the right, like what's got to be written to somebody? So you know, so July, we said, Don't write, don't write the search engines.

George Thomas 21:47
Julie, you said three things. I think you got half of a thing out. So So continue on with the other two and a half. Yeah, that you want to mention.

Juli Durante 21:55
I think the alignment is wrong. I think that and Doug, you may disagree here, but I don't care, I think you can write a good 2021 trends post, if you know, are in a space that has for real 2021 trends. I think that you can write content for leadership audiences, if you were writing content for leadership audiences. And George, I don't think it's a always never situation. This is not binary. But like everything else, good content is content that speaks to the audience. So if I were to write a post that I want, like a beginner marketer, or an entry level marketer to read my 2021 posts wouldn't be marketing trends you need to know for 2021 it would be like marketing trends that recent college graduates need to master to get their first job, rightly, you have to audience and then I shouldn't be talking about account based marketing. These are recent college grad doesn't need to know account based marketing it they're not going to be running an ABM campaign,

Doug Davidoff 22:55
I vehemently agree with you. Fantastic, except, know that that that you can write a great 2021 you can run a great 2021 priorities piece, you can write a great 2021 trends piece. I hate this time of year because everyone writes these 20 you know, everyone uses that to just, you know, remanufacture things and what's sad is there has never been an easier time to legitimately write a priorities for 2021 trends for 2021 in and I, you know, certainly in sales, especially in sales, I think probably especially in marketing because there's like literally, like the difference between December 2020 and December 2019 is like

Unknown Speaker 23:39
yeah, it's like, like normal.

Doug Davidoff 23:41
it you know, the problem is, it's like watching seven Night Live right now. The content writes itself for Saturday Night Live, and they just won't let but you know, they're too damn smart for it. So they have to manufacture it. And I think what they're putting out there has been so far this year has been grabbed. And it's like the content like it's just so rich there. This was so rich, you could do that, too, then I mean, I clicked on it because I'm like, Huh, what are they gonna say? Mm hmm.

George Thomas 24:06
So So couple things are killing me right now that

Doug Davidoff 24:09
when she got two things she wants to get her third thing out.

Unknown Speaker 24:11
Yeah. I'm gonna get anything go you know, go ahead George.

George Thomas 24:15
Get the third thing out and I gotta go hang on because cuz he'll forget he'll freak if I not bring this up right now. How the hell do you agree with her? What word did you use?

Doug Davidoff 24:26
What? I said I vehemently agree.

George Thomas 24:30
I'm gonna write that down for Scrabble people. I don't even know what that means. Which is terrible. I'm gonna go Google that junk when the show's over. Julie good. Might number everybody agree? Yeah, number three. Number three. Let's go with number three.

Juli Durante 24:43
Oh, number three. So this is what kind of like this one got me. Um, so the first priority is transparency and involvement from company leadership. And the second priority is model a positive mindset. And I read those two Back to back. Am I got was? Does this just set me up for toxic positivity? Right? If we want transparency from the top down, but we want everyone to have a positive mindset, what is that? guy's things aren't great right now, but we can do it. I believe in you. That's really hard, right? Like, what about that? So I have a friend who, who works in a conference and event industry. And they had a conference in Germany in March, that got pushed to Germany in June, that got pushed to Germany in October, they got pushed to virtual in November. And he works in sales. And he has a sales role for these conferences and sponsorships and things like that. He has another conference to an overlapping audience that was originally scheduled for December. I know it's virtual in December. So he's trying to sell to the same audience for virtual conferences that are now six weeks apart.

Unknown Speaker 25:59
Yeah, no, that's difficult.

Juli Durante 26:01
And one of them has has more prestige than the other, right? So his leadership team has been like, well, we have to sell these and like, we have this goal we need to hit, we could totally do this. And everyone said, the first event was great, and this and that we don't have negative feedback. And he has to push back and say the reality of my role is that I can't sell a less good thing. Five weeks after someone is already buying the thing that was not what they wanted to have in the first place. Right? So we can't just always from the top down, say, I want to give you all the information you need full transparency, financial this and that. And then always paint a bright, sunny picture, right? Sometimes we have to say we're not going to hit the goal.

Doug Davidoff 26:39
Well, well, this gets into the real meat of why I don't like this post, because they never even define what a positive mindset is. I would bet that the author would agree with you, I would bet that the person you interviewed would agree with you on that. I you know, I think of the Stockdale paradox as a matter of fact, when when, when the whole pandemic kit, I talked to all my clients, I talked to my entire team about the Stockdale paradox which was I learned about it where most people did in the book, Good to Great, most people who learned about it, the Stockdale paradox was he survived Vietnam. And he said there you know, there were there were two types of people who didn't survive Vietnam, the ones who just gave up immediately. But the most dangerous ones were the optimists, right? The pure optimists were going to be out by we're going to be rescued by Christmas, because Christmas came and went. And there was no hope. What what the Stockdale paradox was is, is confront the brutal facts as honestly as possible, and have complete faith that you'll succeed. Right? So you had complete faith that you will be rescued. And you don't know. And so I would say that the Stockdale paradox is would be my definition of Yes, it's a positive mindset. And so yes, I am being positive when I tell you that this is a real problem that there is a risk that I'll tell you the greatest book to read about positive mindset in difficult periods. I actually think everyone should read it is the book endurance by Alfred Keating. It's the story of Shackleton's voyage. It's the I've read multiple books about Shackleton's voyage endurance is the best book about Shackleton's adventure, where they got stranded at the South Pole and no one died. I mean, they lost some limbs, but no one got

George Thomas 28:16
Oh my god. Okay. And so so there's all sorts of lessons in this episode. I'm definitely positive that I got exactly what I was looking for out of this episode with the link that I throw in. Hopefully you have enjoyed it. Look, we have run out of time, believe it or not Time flies when you're having fun. Listen to us complain about people not right. And I've got good news for you.

Doug Davidoff 28:38
Go ahead. I've got good news. George, before you finish off, right, because I know you wanted to talk about does does content need to be cutting edge we're actually going to hit that point next week. Because what this is, is this is the epitome of why thought leadership isn't what you should be right. Hmm. Right. And then into the core of of your question. Give everybody a little bit of dangle a little bit of

George Thomas 29:00
a peek into the future. So make sure you hit us up on the Twitter's By the way, by the way. I would say to everybody, go to the show notes. Read the article. Tell us if we're on drugs. Tell us tell us if you agree use hashtag sprocket talk hashtag the spot podcast of course you can tag real Julie D. Doug David off max Jacob Cohen or myself at George V. Thomas. But until next time, remember to keep learning keep growing and of course keep doing some happy hub spotting