Remington: Yeah, pillar pages and SEO tool in HubSpot.
George: Absolutely. So my question to everybody who's watching this, either the recording or the live view of this, are you currently using pillar pages in your SEO strategy? You can put a yes or a no in there.
George: Yes, the boys are under one roof today which is amazing.
George: So if you are using pillar pages for your SEO or for your content strategy, put a yes or put a no. We're not judging. We don't like to judge. We're just curious what you are doing thus far because today we are unpacking pillar pages, SEO. The SEO tool in HubSpot.
George: Remington, I'm going to let you start on this one. When you think of pillar pages, when you think of the SEO tool, which by the way, I did that on purpose, so we can talk about HubSpot and talk about strategy, kind of some cloud stuff here for people. What do you think?
Remington: When I start thinking about pillar pages and the SEO tool specifically, one of the areas where I start to get excited is the page performance tab in HubSpot. So everything... You've got to start with knowing where you are and where you plan on going. What's cool is you can list out all of the pages based on most trafficked and then you can start selecting the ones, whether its landing pages, whether its blogs or whether its normal website pages if you're on the CMS.
Remington: That's probably one of the biggest areas I like to start. Then you can start whittling down into the actual tool.
George: Tools. While it sounds like one, its multiple. Here's my little tip... Actually, I probably have another baker's dozen to go with this, but my big tip I want to ask you if you are doing pillar pages right, if you are paying attention to the HubSpot SEO tool, have you actually connected your Google account to that tool, meaning Google Search Console?
George: Not a lot of people know but there was a recent update. It might have been a month or maybe even two months ago where you can connect those together and it pulls a lot of data that Search Console has that you might not be paying attention to right into your HubSpot tool. So tip is make sure that you're Google Search Console... Say that five times fast. I can't even say, say that five times fast. Holy mackerel!
George: Make sure your Google Search Console is connected to your HubSpot SEO tool.
George: What's next?
Remington: To take the Google Search Console a step further-
George: Always going to the next level aren't you? Always next level.
Remington: I have to. I have to. Is as you start going into some of the on page analytics for each of the pages, Google Search Console's got a really nice view now right within your optimization tab of a specific website page. The cool thing about that is you get to go into that page and you can start to see not only the score that that page has, but you actually get to see the actual search queries that that page created. You can see the average position so if we're talking about areas where we think there's opportunities. You can see the number of clicks. Also the number of impressions. So when you're going through your specific pages, if you see terms in there that aren't the terms you want, then that means you've got a content issue.
Remington: When you get into that even further, you can even go into your on-page SEO where they've got the cool little grader. Do you have your H1 tags? Do you have your page title and of course, it will have a check list. Hopefully, you're looking for that 100% A-OK status.
George: I love that you went there because its so funny when most people talk about pillar pages, they think of it as such a top level strategy that they forget that with every article you're creating or every article that you're linking or page that you're linking to that content cluster, that you can go very micro in paying attention to what is working and what's not working on that page. Because here's the thing, we all know the reason that this strategy works is because when we have 10 pages that are working well together, the whole ship rises. That's why pillar page content links out to these subtopics and if we're making sure that they're all SEO optimized around the larger ship, then it just does great.
George: Here's the thing, speaking of that, I'm going to give another tip because that's why we're here. We're unpacking pillar page and SEO. Make sure you're paying attention to the green or red lines that are happening on the spider web that is being created inside the tool. Meaning make sure that you're not forgetting the strategy of linking your pillar pages to your subtopics and your subtopics back to your pillar pages. Don't over think this. You really have to realize that its, you've written this article or you've created this page and this page has a title, it has some key words that you're focused on, so in that pillar page, using those key words to hyper link to that actual article or page, and then also knowing going the other way, it's about finding that broad topic that is the pillar page.
George: Let's just say it's like dining rooms. I don't know why I said dining rooms, that's weird. But you're just using the word dining rooms. If you want to learn more about dining rooms, and you link that back to the pillar page. So make sure you're paying attention to that part of the tool.
Remington: So, unpacking that a little bit-
George: See, always this guy next level. I'm telling you that's what's fun about this show. I love this show because we do that.
Remington: So, where you're talking about is actually going into the marketing tab in HubSpot, digging into planning and strategy and then now what used to be called content strategy, now its SEO.
George: Which is weird.
Remington: Yeah, it's a little odd.
George: They like to name things and rename things.
Remington: It's still topics on the main page.
George: And then rename things again. It's fun. We love you HubSpot.
Remington: But when you look at that, you've got that main tab and what's cool, you can also split that up based on the total amount of people that are viewing it, so each of your areas. If you choose your time frame, you can go back in and start to break those down.
Remington: But you said something that was pretty interesting about the green line or the red line. You're talking about whether or not the two pages are linked within the pillar right?
George: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-
Remington: So, we're talking about deep linking inside a website page, so if you're talking about for instance, your branding page on Impulse, you would want brand strategy that references that main branding page or any blogs or any other supporting subtopics to that point. That's what he's talking about with the red and the green sections.
Remington: The other piece you can now do that on page, which is pretty incredible.
George: Yeah, HubSpot does really pay attention although maybe not the last couple days, but typically HubSpot pays attention to... Hey, I'm just calling a spade a spade. You know what I'm saying? That's why this show is live. That's why we do what we do because we can. Here's the deal, HubSpot really does try to pay attention to making life easier for us.
George: I love that we have a couple questions. First of all, I'm going to go with this question, "If you're creating pages or content that is not aligned to a pillar term, just throw it away?" I would say, "Yes and," to that meaning yes, you can throw it away or you can realize maybe it's meant for another pillar or another direction or section of your content and what you do as far as products or services.
George: This one though, I love this. "How do address the limited number of subtopics the tool allows per pillar topic?" Which by the way is 21 and the number 21 came by a specific study that HubSpot did, and I actually asked this same question about a year to Jeffrey Vocell at HubSpot and he said that through their studies, there was a point where the amount of subtopics didn't show any more results for the search or the searcher for it to be a better result. So that it didn't get bogged down, people didn't get frustrated with the tool, so they didn't put too much in there, they knew that 21 would get them to the magic number. To be honest with you, the 12 to 18 range is where they found the best results with this tool and the subtopic pillar page that they were creating.
George: It was a great interview. You should maybe check it out. I don't know if its still on the internet.
Remington: You should try to link it.
George: They may have deleted it. Company not to be named, I don't know.
George: So anyway, but I did have that question. There's your answer for you. 12 to 18 is what's going to work best for you anyway. If you go over 21 it might be a little bit overkill. Just check that out.
George: I want to go off of the tool for a second and go onto the page. One of the things that I always love teaching people about pillar page content is making sure that you have a table of contents because here's what happens. Here's what happens. When people read blog articles, which by the way are the subtopics of what could be your pillar page... When people are reading blog articles, we do this very interesting thing where we scan the page. We literally scroll it first and we're looking at all the H2s. By all that's holy, please tell me you're using H2s in your blog articles, anyways, I digress.
Remington: And H1s.
George: Yes. Yes, please, please, but as users we scroll that and we're looking to see is this content important to me? Am I going to learn what I need to learn? I might dive into the fourth paragraph or the fourth H2 that I see and start to read it and then go back to the top and be like, "Yep, I'm going to read the whole thing because it was super important."
George: Now with pillar page content when you're talking about creating something that's 2, 3, 4, 8, 16,000 words, you need an easy way to achieve that same thing and a table of contents will allow your visitor to see in a moment's notice, here are the 8, 10, 12, 7, I don't know, things that are going to be covered on this page, so they're able to scroll with their eyes in a glance and know that maybe I want to dive into number six or maybe I want to dive into number 12. But I eventually might want to come back and read the whole thing, so definitely have table of contents in there.
George: Remington, what's next sir? Are you going to go next level on that?
Remington: I'm going to go next level on that.
George: Aw man, this guy right here.
Remington: From a technical SEO point of view, that table of contents, it's very important that its an ordered or unordered list. A bullet point list or a number list. If you build it that way, there's a fun thing that can happen on Google which is you can get to position zero where it starts to unpack the individual results. If someone asks, what are the video marketing trends for 2019? If you have that unordered list structured that way, it can link to the other sections of content. That's going to be uber important for you to have.
Remington: If you just have text or paragraphs of H1s or even H2s in a lot of cases people do, so the text is bigger. It's real important. It's actually going to be better for you if it's the normal size as the rest of the text and it's just is labeled, "Table of contents," then if you made it really big from Google's point of view.
George: I'm going to go with another tip. I don't know if we're going to have time to do a baker's dozen. I see that we've already done 15 minutes of great value on pillar pages and SEO. I will say if you have questions or comments, leave them in here. We want to get back to you even after this recording. We'd love to help. That's why we do this. This is why we literally created Sprocket Talk Unpacked.
George: Here's the thing a lot of people Remington when they think about pillar pages, they think of I just need to create this long page, a ton of value and they tend to forget on this page the fact that you're also trying to convert people into contacts. That you're trying to generate leads. That everything that you're doing as a strategy should go into revenue. That's why we're in business, to drive revenue.
George: So I want you to think about two different ways that you could use these pillar pages as lead generation opportunities. The first one is maybe half of the page... Let's say you've got eight topics that you're covering. That table of contents that we just talked about has eight different things that you can see and maybe you let them get down to chapter four or chapter five and at chapter four or chapter five, it actually clouds out the rest of the content and there's like a, "Hey, if you want to learn more about dining rooms..." because that's what we're talking about today is dining rooms, then go ahead, first name, last name, email, boom, they convert. Now you've got a contact or a lead and they get the other 25% or 50% of the content that you've created that they can watch. It's very low barrier. I'm not saying it has to be 17 fields. It should be very simple.
George: The other piece of this is just having something at the top or bottom or middle, I don't care where you put it, but, "Would you like to take this page with you?" That type of scenario where they can literally press a button and we'll send you a PDF version of this. You can take it on a plane. You can take it on a train. You eat it with a fox. No that's not actually where I was trying to go. That's Dr. Seuss, but you get the idea. You get the idea. You can take this somewhere where maybe you don't have internet. You can print it off. You can maybe share it with your old school sales team who doesn't use the internet. No, I'm just kidding.
Remington: You can fax it to them.
George: You can fax it to them. No, no, we would never do that. That's crazy.
George: But you can say, "Here give us your email. We'll download it to you." Now you've got your email. Now you can see what website they have. Now you can start to do some research. Now you can start a work flow. Now you can get more information. Maybe send them a survey. You get the idea. There's a ton of marketing things you can do but its very low barrier and you're being helpful at the same time.
George: Remington, next level that?
Remington: Got you.
George: Aw, dang on it! Dang on it!
Remington: When you're talking about getting halfway down on the page, one of the easiest things to do especially if you have HubSpot is to go ahead and set up a pop up form, previously called lead flow, to do the exact same thing too.
George: Speaking of the renaming, naming things.
Remington: Yeah, exactly. Then in addition to that, you could also use a chat bot. Now the HubSpot chat bot's not going to do it so well for scroll on page at this point because of targeting, but what you could do is you could have a CTA on that page that triggers a UTM parameter that actually will drive the bot to fire. It's a little nerdy.
Remington: We have a video for that too.
George: Rewind. Yeah, there's a video, but rewind because you'll want to listen to that two or three times. You'll be like, UTM... Hey, we have a great question here. "Are you manually linking within the blog post back to the pillar page or just connecting them with the tool?" You are manually linking them on the page, page to page and then the toll realizes that its actually linked and if they're not linking back and forth, the tool lets you know that they're not linking back and forth.
Remington: With the red line.
George: Yeah, with the red line. That is a great question, great question.
George: Next thing I'm going to throw out there and this is just kind of a go to for me.
George: Whenever I create a pillar page, I want to lead with video. At the time of my pillar page, probably next to the table of contents, I want a video. It can be one minute. It can be two minutes. It can be three minutes, but the idea is a synopsis of what they're going to find on that page. The idea is a tease of the things that they are going to learn. The idea is that in this article, this pillar page, we're going to solve 90% of the problems that you may have around dining rooms. I don't know why you have a problem with your dining room. I've seen your dining room. I think it looks nice.
George: No, I'm just kidding. I have not seen your dining room. That's a little creepy. But you get the idea. You can just simply say in a video that we're going to do this plus it helps with this: them staying on page. Them not bouncing. Them not exiting because you're giving them something to immediately engage with which is that top video. Of course, I'm saying start with it, but so that you don't next level me, I'm also saying use video in it. Now he'll probably still next level me anyway.
Remington: No, so I've got another one to that point, so I'll let you have that. 100%, video on your pillar pages.
Remington: A question that I've heard a couple times that comes up is what should the pillar page be or where should the pillar page be? One of the cool things that we're doing with a couple clients is actually making their service pages, their [inaudible 00:16:45], making their service pages the pillar. Now, there's a couple things you've got to think about there. One is you want make sure you've got some strong calls to action throughout, that hit the different parts of the funnel. You can also really start to flush out the featured part of things and take it a step further is going a little bit more... Elementary is not the right word, but more beginner level in regards to content to make that page so that it's just got that crazy information.
Remington: It's also going to show people that you're super knowledgeable because if you think about your competitors, they may not have that much content going. So think about using pillar pages as your service pages.
George: Yeah, now I might be next leveling you on this-
Remington: Do it.
George: Because you took it to the realm of content. Whenever I talk to folks about crating a pillar page of content, I tell them that we're taking them on a journey. So when I think of a journey, I think of starting somebody from knowing nothing and taking them to being very educated. One of the strategies you might have when you're actually building out a pillar page is how do we start with very much awareness type content. Something that they would search for and find at the very top of the funnel that can link to our awareness type blog articles as the subtopics. As they read down the page, then it gets into decision because now we've met each other. I've bought you a drink. We've had an appetizer. Now we're getting into the steak and potatoes, the meat of the dinner.
Remington: We're sitting in your dining room.
George: Well, yeah, didn't you know? Anyway, you get the idea. As you scroll down further, you finally get down to the decision phase type content and it feels very natural. Its very conversational. Its awareness. Its consideration. It's decision and now when you go for that ask at the bottom of, "Would you like somebody to help you with..." aka our sales rep, aka somebody who's really smart, aka somebody who has solved this problem for others before, it doesn't come off as sales-y, it's like, "Man, they just added two bazillion words of value and several videos and some infographics, heck yeah, I want somebody to contact me."
George: Yeah, I'm preaching it. Preaching the pillar pages. Okay, what's next?
Remington: I don't know, what you got?
George: Well, here's what I would say about pillar pages and I'm going to dive back into the HubSpot tool. One thing-
Remington: Oh I'm sorry. Since we're going back into it-
George: Oh, see, how you going to do that?
Remington: HubSpot tool-
George: I'll let him go.
Remington: How long should your pillar page be is one of the big questions.
George: Yeah. Yeah.
Remington: So before we jump back into the HubSpot tool, the easiest way to do that is to do some key word research and look at those terms. So as your planing your strategy, you can start to see in the actual pillar page tool, you'll be able to see that stuff. When you look at the particular topic, you can take that topic and you can look at the top 20 results that show up in Google. What you need to do is essentially do word counts on those top 20 results because you essentially want to be in those first two pages, hopefully on the first. Essentially what we end up doing at Impulse is we'll analyze those and we'll look into how we can 10x the content. Now, not actually 10x-ing in some cases, but essentially what you have to do is you have to make the page more compelling and have more value and be more thorough than the competition. So if it's a race to the top, you've got to think about how you can make that happen.
Remington: The caveat is after you finish your pillar page, you'll probably have a competitor going, "Oh crap, we've got to beat them again." So a lot of times, you can really go in and 10x that content and you're going to see the results really take off. So if you have all of your competition on average in your spreadsheet is like three to five thousand words, do a 10,000 word pillar page on the topic and see what happens when Google starts looking at that.
George: It's funny because I was just having this conversation with one of our clients, before we dive back into the tool, when you think you have enough to beat them, think about throwing in a couple extra thousand words. This is why and I don't mean to be mean in this statement, but if I'm a competitor and I look at something that's like 6,000 words, I might go, "I can beat that." If I look at something that's 10,000 words I start to get a little bit nervous. If I see something that's 12, 14, just astronomical, I'm like, "Whoop, game over. They won."
George: So think about when you think you're done, is there more that you can add? And to that, just because you completed a pillar page 30 days ago, 60 days ago, 90 days ago, doesn't mean that you shouldn't be adding content as new things happen in the space.
Remington: Good point.
George: It should be an ever growing, ever breathing piece of your site, so with that said-
Remington: Back into the tool.
George: Back into the tool. One of the things I love about the tool is allowing the tool to do suggestions for me and being able to see the number of monthly search results for that suggestion. That's not my tip by the way. I just like that the tool does that.
George: My tip is that just because you're being hand fed doesn't mean it's the meal you should eat, going back to the dining room reference. What the tip is is also make sure that you're doing your own research using the HubSpot tool because you can put you're own subtopics and key words and phrases in there to see what gets different monthly search results. Just because AI is in there, just because playing with AI is cool, just because they're making it super easy for you doesn't mean that you should always go down the easy road. I'm just going to throw that out there.
Remington: That's a great point because the context and the subject matter about solving for your customer is more important than solving for the search engine. While it might be a mixture of both you don't want to always go just based on something that gets more views than the other because at the end of the day, it's the conversion rate of the content that's coming through that really matters.
George: Too, remember, if you're watching this and you're like I don't have any pillar pages, you need to remember that at first HubSpot's actually learning. It'll give you where you can say, "Hey this doesn't have any... It's not for this topic. It's not for my business." It's giving you options to say this is really good content. We're going in the right direction or this is really bad content. Don't bring this up again. So remember you're first couple pillar pages, you literally have to go through almost a learning phase inside of HubSpot as well. Not you learning, but HubSpot learning your business.
Remington: That's very interesting. I didn't know it did that.
George: Yeah, it's super dope. What else?
Remington: If you don't have pillar pages, where do you start looking?
George: I don't know if this is a loaded question or not.
Remington: No, I mean I have an idea of an answer, but go ahead.
George: So I have several things I'll say to this. Well, I'll say one. I'll shut up. I'll see what you say and then I'll go from there.
Remington: Let's go.
George: I might be able to one up him folks.
Remington: Three minutes.
George: So here's the thing, we've got three minutes to talk about pillar pages, SEO, by the way, leave your comments here. If you love this, let us know. Let us know what topic you want us... We already have the next topic, but what do you want us to talk about after that? We want to know. This is all about you guys, all about the group, all about adding value.
George: The first thing if I don't have any pillar pages, the thing I'm going to do is I'm going to say, "What makes a great pillar page?" I'm going to do a Google search. I'm going to look at some examples, 12, 14, 18 of what are on pillar pages. I'm going to look at a pillar page and be like, "Yep, there's the table of contents that George and Remington talked about. Yep, there's a video. Oh look they used graphics. Oh look they do these special headlines. Oh look, they have a tweet..." What's that tweet?
Remington: Click to tweet.
George: Click to tweet. That's what it is, right. So they have all these elements and pieces and they make it interactive and it looks even different than the website because it's made special or it looks the same as the website, but I'm going to look and see what elements are there. I'm going to look and see how they're doing their conversations because then I at least have a foundational representation in my own brain of what looks good, what sounds good, what feels good to me so that I can spin around and do that for my business.
George: Remington, where were you going with this?
Remington: So, what would you do the pillar page about was more the direction I was going. Not how, but with that, a lot of times you can go back to the content that's already working.
George: Without a doubt.
Remington: You can go and look at your top blogs that you've had. You can go to look at your top pages and one is you want to audit that to make sure that it's actually the right way. I'll give you a quick story.
Remington: We have a mouthwatering content ideas for catering companies owner's blog and that blog every single month is in our top five and it drives me absolutely bonkers because it was a blog we did a couple years ago, but it is so compelling. That's not one I'd do a pillar for because it doesn't fit our segment of our business. It's helpful. It's still there, but what we want to do is start thinking about from a business point of view, say, HubSpot ROI. We actually have a pillar page about that but when you start building out a page, look at the blogs that are performing well, that you have a little bit of traction on because that first one you do is going to be a little harder to get moving, but once you start getting Google coming back more often, it's going to be a lot heavier. So, look for that top performing content and then take it from there and just start riffing on that and build out. It could start as that blog that you had and you could turn it into this mega piece of content.
George: That's a great strategy. That's a great strategy. It really is if you've been writing the right junk. But if you've been writing the wrong junk, then you just going to write some more junk which is not good. So I'm going to take your idea and what I'm going to go with is-
Remington: You going to one up it?
George: I'm going to one up this bad boy and I'm going to say if I'm going to create a pillar page, I'm going to create it on the number one problem that I solve. That's it. If I know that I'm serving people who actually redo dining room floors, I'm going to do a pillar pages on that problem. Like what is the biggest problem when you're trying to redo your dining room floor and that is going to be my pillar page because I know that that's what they're going to be searching. They're going to be searching the problem that they're trying to solve. I'm also going to do like you said, the products, the service, things like that, but I do like Remington, if you're writing good junk and you're seeing... And I don't mean junk, I just mean content people. But if you're writing good stuff and you do see results-
Remington: Positive junk.
George: Positive stuff, then go in that direction and the one that I put and that's funny because Dan's like... Holy mackerel, we've got like a ton of stuff here which we'll get to, but Dan said, with zero minutes, but that's okay, we'll go a little bit longer. Dan says, "Pillar page battle." I love that. I love that.
Remington: We are battling a little.
George: We are kind of battling. It's like rap battles, but HubSpot. "And stop stalling George." I love this, he even puts a link, which I'm not going to say. I'm not going to say that, but they can see it.
Remington: They found a pillar page.
George: They can click on it and they can see it and they can go check it out. Okay, so I'd like to start with their 50 to 100 key words and then narrow down to 10 to 15, must win pillar terms, in some cases unattainable. A client recently said to me we have to win all the pillars, be number one for those high volume terms but then we identified that the long tail terms are driving the huge volumes and we're winning both.
George: Look at that. Look at that. This is awesome. Look at this stuff.
Remington: We've got some comments. They like the in house riffing it.
George: They like the pillar page battle.
Remington: So there is a questions. "Do you suggest having the pillar pages live in your primary navigation menus? My assumption is that they should be built on a page template and not in the blog post template."
Remington: Great question. You can do both. What I have is sometimes I graduate my pillar pages and so you might have a longer topic where you're testing a certain subject matter and you want to see how that goes. You could start it out with the blog but you could still link to it in... There's no reason that you couldn't link to it in the primary menu. We have a couple examples of that. Our conversational one on the Impulse Creative website is going to actually take you to a blog and then we've got the video marketing pillar page, which link is in the comments from Mr. Dan Sullivan, thank you very much.
George: Yes it is.
Remington: That is also linked in the navigation. I think what it does is it depends on where you're getting that traffic and how people are using it and there's whole nother promotional strategy on trying to get people to link build and put in resources towards that builder page and you've got to make it accessible so I'd say go for it.
George: This is why I love this show because Remington I'm curious if we just uncovered a wish list item or not. You'll know... I'm obviously not... I mean I know some things about HubSpot. I may not know everything about HubSpot. I know that you can take a landing page and a thank you page and you can say make this a website page. I know that functionality is there, but is there the functionality to be able to take a blog post-
George: And turn it into a page?
Remington: No you can't.
George: That might be interesting. If you could literally say, "Hey, this blog post has grown very long and I want to convert it to a pillar page." HubSpot, that might be a wish list item right there.
Remington: Yeah, it could be fun and it is possible to do... I'm going nerdy. It is possible to do... So you would have to create a website page with the same URL. It won't let you at first, but it would be the same URL of the blog and then you'd have to delete the blog and publish the website page.
George: See, there should just be a button.
Remington: I agree.
George: There should be a convert to pillar page button. That'd be awesome.
Remington: For sure.
George: That'd be super dope. We can have wishes right? You can have dreams people. You know what my dream is?
Remington: What's your dream?
George: What were you going to say first?
Remington: No, go.
George: My dream is that you would leave comments in the comments. My dream is that you would make sure that you show up on the times where we're doing these lives and that you would ask your questions because this show Sprocket Tongue Unpacked... Sprocket tongue? Anyway, I don't know. That's the next show that we're going to create. Sprocket Talk Unpacked is totally for you guys. I's live. It's unfiltered and I absolutely love it that way.
George: What do you want to say as we close?
Remington: Do me a favor. Share our group/video with anyone else that you know that's using HubSpot. We've got some pretty lofty goals for this group and it can only help the conversation with all of you guys helping us share. Thanks so much.
George: Yeah, if you don't see a HubSpot user that you know in this group, then they need to know about it.
George: Hey folks, this is your boy, George B. Thomas. He of course is...
Remington: Remington Begg.
George: And we're saying be happy, helpful humans and while you're doing that, do some happy HubSpotting.
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About the Expert
My passion is to help business owners succeed by helping them leverage the POWER of internet marketing. We work with clients to define their goals, and backwards-analyze what they need to reach those goals using everything available with the internet.
Remington: Yeah, pillar pages and SEO tool in HubSpot.