The Spot EP21: What Makes A Great Marketer?

 

Ready, Spot, Go

In this episode of The Spot, Doug Davidoff, Juli Durante, Max Cohen and, George B. Thomas start by sharing their thoughts on what is marketing. Then, they quickly get into the discussion of what makes a great marketer. This conversation takes some zigs and some zags and leaves a couple of mental meltdowns along the way.

That Hit The Spot

Wondering what makes a great marketer? Here are the two articles we share in the show.

What do you think makes a great marketer? Let us know!

Until We Spot Again

Make sure you connect with The Spot team. Let us know your thoughts on the shows so far.

  • Juli: @realjulid
  • Doug: @dougdavidoff
  • Max: @maxjacobcohen
  • George: @georgeBThomas

Make sure to use the hashtag #sprockettalk or #thespotpodcast.

Audio

About the Expert

The Spot Hosts

Juli Durante is an always-curious marketer interested in the big picture of marketing and sales to help companies drive big revenue. A HubSpot user since 2011, Juli’s deep understanding of inbound marketing campaigns furthers Impulse Creative’s mission of helping businesses grow better.

Doug is the founder and CEO of Imagine Business Development. He’s directly advised more than a dozen companies who have successfully sold for a combined value of more than $1 billion.

For more than 20 years, Doug has been advising small and mid-market companies that are committed to serious growth who want to hear the truth about achieving it. Doug’s worked, firsthand, with more than 1,500 companies (and seen their financial statements), so he knows the difference between what works, and what sounds good and doesn’t work.

Max Cohen started at HubSpot in 2015 as an Implementation Specialist on the Customer Onboarding team after four years on Apple's Business Team.  He joined HubSpot's Learning and Development team as a Product Trainer in 2018 and is currently a Facilitator for HubSpot Foundations, which is HubSpot's new hire onboarding program.  When he's not coaching new HubSpotters on the HubSpot product and the Inbound Methodology, he coaches New England Infamous, a competitive paintball team.  You can learn more about Max and find ways to connect with him by going to maxjacobcohen.com.

George B. Thomas is an Inbound Marketing Marketer, Video Jedi and HubSpot Certified Trainer with more than 25 years of sales and marketing experience. He leads the Impulse Creative crew in HubSpot certifications with 19 including Inbound, Email, Contextual, and Content Marketing.

George utilizes his love of teaching and learning to help companies find their way to growth via workshops, speaking engagements, business audits, and of course, Sprocket Talk.

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Full Transcript

George Thomas 0:05
Are you a HubSpot user looking to stay up to date with HubSpot, inbound and all the information that will make your job easier and help you

Unknown Speaker 0:12
and your company grow

George Thomas 0:13
better? Each week the spot brings you the HubSpot education ideas and tools that you need to maximize your success. Make Work just a little bit easier and of course, brighten your day along the way. Listen in as Julie tug, Max and George share their authentic entertaining and valuable conversations with the people who really matter. That's right you, ladies and gentlemen, let's give it up for your HubSpot journey heroes. Welcome to this week's episode of the spot. Ready spot grow? That's right, we're back with another episode By the way, just so everybody knows I'm an idiot. We've already done this episode, we actually did like two weeks ago. However, you know, in the infamous like ability to have technology. Yeah, ejected up. So we're gonna do it again, for the first time for you guys for the second time for us, I'm actually very curious to see how this turns out on a level of like, Is it gonna be the same conversation that we had previous? Or is it gonna be completely different? Because I kind of remember the conversation, but we're going to start with the question that I started with. And that is, and whoever wants to go first can go first. Um, you know, whatever. What the heck is marketing? In your mind? If somebody asks you what is marketing? What do you say to that question?

Max Cohen 1:31
I think what I was kind of mentioned last time, and I think I still stand by this is like I went to school for, you know, marketing and had the traditional sort of marketing playbook. doctrine eyes upon me. And then, you know, years after college, I kind of re re re entered the whole HubSpot and inbound world after originally getting, you know, exposed to it in college. But the, I guess what I originally thought it was just like advertising, buying, you know, billboards and TV advertisements and ads in the newspaper and magazines and things like that. And while Yes, that's that's marketing, I think, you know, my mind started to kind of shift to saying, oh, now it's all about blogging and video and YouTube and content. And like all these things, and while Yes, I still think that's definitely a big piece of it, like my frame of mind has kind of shifted a lot more in the past three years, as I've been sort of, you know, wrapping my head around what like HubSpot has kind of turned into and kind of what inbound is kind of evolved into and you know, what marketing is kind of evolved into, it's, it's sort of like the experience, you give it every single step of the process, whether you're, you know, helping someone find you through the first time with educational content that helps them get close to achieving some sort of goal or challenge. So you can build trust with them, all the way to making sure your product is actually delivering on the promises that it made when someone bought it. That sales process that kind of sits in between there, and you know, how good of an explorer batum and experience that is? And then, of course, like, you know, the afterwards right, like, what are you doing to be there for your customer? What sort of experiences are they having afterward with it? And how are you turning people, you know, into your best marketers that will go out and tell people, you know, your product is great, right? So I mean, it's, it is definitely time said, it's like kind of whatever you want it to be, but it is kind of like everything, you know, everything can have a hand in affecting your marketing in one way, shape, or form. So stuff really isn't on a given one. What isn't marketing,

Unknown Speaker 3:47
accounting.

Unknown Speaker 3:51
HR.

Max Cohen 3:53
lampshade is not marketing, there's

George Thomas 3:54
a lot of things that aren't marketing, the sun, the sun is not marketing. It's funny, because I actually had time to like, think about this in between the time of jacking it up and like knowing we were going to do it again. And I realized I actually have like a really funky relationship with marketing. Because before 2012, if you asked me what marketing was, I would say it's interruptive. It's annoying. It's like people calling me it's like ads in my face. And then in 2012, when I actually like did inbound and learned about inbound marketing, which if you ask a lot of people now would probably be marketing or digital marketing. I was like, Oh, actually, this isn't like, close to like a marketer isn't close to being a dentist, okay, like maybe actually want to be a marketer, because before that I wasn't a marketer. And so what's fun is through my path, I actually had to do like almost the exact opposite max of what you did, because I learned all about inbound marketing and digital marketing and what HubSpot was saying and what companies along the way were saying. And then at one point I was like, there's four Ps, wait, what? What are you guys talking about? Like, there was a marketing before this. And I actually had to, like, go back in history and start to research and, and read books. Well, we all know that I don't read books, but listen to books. You know, like, it's like, so like jack Welch's MBA, like, went and listened to that which was amazing and like, dove into like listening to people like Doug and and other folks talk about like the historical pieces and what books they're reading. And so now I'm very much dug with you, I'm not sure what isn't marketing, because if I go real thin on this marketing is the story that you or others tell about the products and services that you provide, which could be anything under the sun. In my opinion,

Doug Davidoff 5:54
what you guys are talking about primarily, though, is is is the change that's happened to the promotion. playbook, inbound is a piece of promotion story is his promotion, you know, if marketing is everything, then it's nothing, then then to say that it's marketing or to say that I'm a marketer is not to say, you know, it has no meaning. I mean, I would say operations is not marketing, does that mean that there's no role of marketing and operations, of course, there's a role in marketing, because communications is a component, you have those things that go on, but operations is not a marketing discipline. You know, HR is not marketing. Finance is not marketing. Again, I I think when you look at business, you're dealing with a complex ecosystem. And so it's, you know, you can't, you know, they're not x pieces of a puzzle that fit in there's, you know, things are interwoven, etc. So to answer your question, George, when someone says, What is marketing, what marketing is, most often when people talk about it is the promotion part of it? If we go back 2030 years ago, actually, God Holy cow, and probably 4050 years ago, it what we do would be called the marketing communications department. And the discipline of what we do would have been called Mark comm that got, you know, the, for the entire reason that inbound, you're the inbound revolution came about there, there, there became an edginess factor associated with that term marketing communications. And it's also a very long word to say, so just gotten short handed to marketing. But But now, you know, the My problem with the word is, it means whatever somebody wants it to mean, which, which, therefore makes it really hard for anyone to have a conversation. And have that be clarifying if the word marketing ever gets you.

George Thomas 7:46
Yeah, Julie, I want to go to you next. But I found myself just doing something which is interesting. Like, I was eagerly shaking my head, which I don't know why I do that when you're like, HR is not marketing, finances, not marketing, and I agree, but then all sudden, I felt this like internal turmoil of like, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah. But wait, they can dramatically affect my marketing. Like, so. You know what I mean? Like, I just want people to be like, I don't want people to listen to this and go while there's distinct wall, so I don't have to worry about those that you actually probably do need to worry about those as a marketer to just make sure like the flow and the process and the friction and the you know, the force, all the things we've talked about historically are like happening there. But Julie, I want to get your take, because so far, we've been very chatty Cathy's about this, and you have just kind of been like sitting back and like absorbing all the information. When when you hear this question, Where do you go?

Juli Durante 8:46
Yeah, it's fun to listen and absorb. Sometimes. I think in like the broadest strokes, right? If you ask me, like, what's marketing, I'm gonna think about, like, all of the ways people interact with your brand. However, I do agree, Doug, like finance is not marketing. But sometimes finance needs marketing, right? Like, if I'm following up on open invoices, I as an imposter versus I've had times where those follow ups have been sent by finance than by accounting in a very, like, straight numbers kind of way and received by clients, as very jarring will say, right, not great communication, there were someone with, like a marketing or communications background might write that email differently. And that influence is really important because those are the types of things that come back around into into reviews and those pieces of the puzzle. HR is not marketing, but in a lot of ways recruiting is or recruiting can be. So there, there are a lot of layers, and I think it's very blended and the deeper we get into the 2021 of it all. The more multifaceted it becomes the more valuable potentially a marketer or someone who thinks like a marketer is right? Like, wouldn't you hate to get a review that says, love working with my account manager, but Gosh, is their accounting team aggressive? Actually left as a client? Because I hated these invoice reminders, they sent me three invoice reminders before the due date. That's not good. That's a problem. That's now a marketing problem caused by non marketing, but people who need that in their space,

Max Cohen 10:35
it's the experience that got affected.

George Thomas 10:38
Yeah, very much. So and and everything is about kind of experience especially agilities. At 2021. Like, man we are, our culture is like experience driven, to say the least. So here's the thing. The reason that, of course, by the way, folks, conversation dramatically different than the first time that we did this that you'll never watch or hear because, yeah, anyway, the reason we bring this up is because the true conversation we want to have today, the meat and potatoes of the podcast of the episode is what the heck makes a good marketer. And we have two articles in the shownotes, you can click on the links below, if you're on the page. And you can see two articles, the first article that we're going to dive into is the 10 essential qualities of a successful marketer. Pretty, pretty SEO driven pretty, you know, hey, this is what we're going to talk about. I don't mind the title, lady. and gentlemen, what were your thoughts? When you went through this article, and we were talking about things like, sales ability and innovation and curiosity and things of the such?

Max Cohen 11:51
Yeah, I think for me, the the, the ones that I really liked, here were word curiosity, and just kind of trying to be an eternal learner, and just try to learn as much as you can, right? I mean, it's, it's one of those things where like, if you come in as a marketer to some sort of company, like, there's no guarantee that you'll be a subject matter expert, and like, whatever it is that you're marketing, right, so I'm never gonna say like, you need to become a subject matter expert, but like, you need to at least be curious about it, you need to be able to, like leverage those around you who are subject matter experts, and, and then you got to be the one that takes all that data, and then information and kind of craft it into a, you know, a message that that resonates with whoever it is that you're trying to attract. But also, I think the big thing that comes from learning a lot about the area that you're not a subject matter in is like the confidence in your marketing that comes from it. Right. And because I think there's just a lot of things that like marketers will, there's a lot of excuses, I think that marketers will make, to not do something or to not create content, or to not write this blog article, or whatever it may be. And I think a lot of that comes from the fear of like getting something wrong, or not having the subject matter expertise, or just finding another excuse not to do it. And I think if you can, like really dig into your industry or whatever it is that you're marketing, even though you're not a an SME coming into it, curiosity is gonna help you a whole lot there.

Doug Davidoff 13:15
So George, we're on loss right now is in relation to what role as a marketer are we talking about are we talking about the head of marketing, because the head of marketing should have more familiarity and comfort with with selling I disagree with the idea that they need to be able to sell as well as pack if they could sell as well as and enjoyed it, they would probably be doing that. You know, if I'm the analytics person, or an ad or a person on the analytics team, if I'm on the branding team, if I'm the graphic designer on the branding team. What saw you know, so it again, it comes back to you no idea what this on the sales side all the time, you know, I always ask the question, who's the greatest football player of all time? You know, one of the famous people get gets brought up and I say, Okay, great. What if you're looking for a left tackle? What if you're looking for you know, a linebacker all of a sudden, you know, Tom Brady, Walter Payton, Jim Brown, although Jim Brown would probably be pretty damn good at just about any position. I got the he Yeah, Jim Brown man is a beast. But but but still, it's, you know, this element. They're all football players. Yeah. Right. And and I think that one of the reasons why I mean, candling 90% of marketing doesn't justify its cost. You can just look at you just look at the data and you'll know that and the reason is, as we look at it through this, we have this tendency to look at it through this every man perspective. Like I remember Mike Volpi shared a document how to build a marketing team. And he basically shared what at the time, you know, hub spots marketing team was and they had a top of funnel team, a middle funnel team, a bottom funnel team, and events team. And then there was one other team I forget what the 15 was. And the point of that is a you can really only solve one big problem at a time. So if I'm a marketing team, and I'm dealing with everything, like when when I work with people, it's okay, well, where's our priority, that's what we have to focus on. And if you want to solve more than one problem, you have to have more than one team. But also, the point is that the discipline, the focus, the elements, the mindset of a top of funnel, team, middle funnel, team, bottom funnel team, or if you want to call it early journey, middle journey, late journey, those things all change, right, the size of the team has that impact. And I think we need to start bringing more discipline behind what we call a marketer, and what that role is, and and match that, you know, what's the job to be done? Right? We were doing that with technology now, right? And we're kind of not definite with marketers. If I look at job description, someone's hiring a marketer. And it's like, wow, I am not sure that that marketer actually exists, because according to the job description, they are masters at everything. They're extraordinarily creative. They're detail oriented, they're exceptional communicators. I'm like, I'd love to have that right in. And, you know, aren't there

Max Cohen 16:10
like a lot of businesses, though, that just have like a marketer play like a generalist marketing role versus like having specified.

Doug Davidoff 16:18
So if you're a generalist role, right, then then that's a different, that's a different play as well. And by the way, if you're a generalist, no offense to any generalist, you simply can't be exceptional at anything. And what you're going to find is if you're, if you can't draw it, you might, you might personally have the capability to be exceptional. But if I have to do everything, you know, being exceptional means you're disproportionately allocating resources. Right, you're there, you've got extra focus on something. And so if I'm going to extra focus on this and be great at it, I got to give something up. It's the only thing like if everything's the top priority, then there's no priority. Yeah. And so it's a different game. It's it's a different level, I wouldn't expect a generalist which almost by definition is going to be a small marketing team. You know, and how many, how many of our clients, Julie and I not that there are shared clients, but George Julian, you know, Max, you, you you work from, from the the tech side, but how many of our clients have generalist marketing teams, and they say things like, well, HubSpot publishes five blogs a day, you know, well, this company does X, Y, or Z, and we're looking at a generalist. And and using a playbook for, you know, it's got a whole wide variety of specialists, you've got to manage what that trade off is. And so when you're looking at, at the elements of what makes a good marketer, man, I can tell you the one element that makes that would make a good marketer, regardless of role that is far too lacking, which is business acumen. And by the way, it's one marketing, you know, marketing, and you know, none of you are gonna like this, but I'm a sales guy on the show. So I get to say, right, marketing's never been particularly good at it with business acumen, even at the higher levels. It's why they not traditionally had a seat at the table.

George Thomas 18:10
So so here's I, I have to say this. If you're listening to this, and you're googling right now, business acumen, Doug's point, Doug's point is proven and done, I'll be honest with you, like, I have many years into the marketing. Like I was a marketer for years, until I heard that term. And I had to Google it's not something that is inherently like, Hey, you should focus on this first, or you should know these things are in this today's track in marketing, like if you go through all of HubSpot Academy's content, you're not going to find a lesson on business acumen.

Doug Davidoff 18:56
That's why we have a course on it. But I'm sorry, I couldn't.

Unknown Speaker 19:00
There you go.

George Thomas 19:01
self promotion. I love it. That was good marketing, Doug. But here's the thing. I do want to get Julie's thoughts too. But I honestly am having like, I'm having FOMO for the people who weren't part of the first conversation we had because I want to go back to the football thing. Because Doug, the first time we went through that you actually position it as a question and you asked us like, who was the all time football player?

Doug Davidoff 19:28
But I already asked you the question. So I No,

George Thomas 19:30
no, no. So it works. Because I want people I said how long? However, again, I've had time to think about this, I would change my answer. It wouldn't be how I should have the first time we went through this at Walter Payton, because Walter Payton to me probably is now now that I have time to think like, oh, man, I really loved the way that he played but going to your generalist he couldn't have been probably a good, you know, defensive player.

Doug Davidoff 19:56
He was a horrible left tackle.

George Thomas 19:58
Yeah, exactly. Julie you were you leaned in when I went to like football players and maintain Tim Riggins Texans forever. Thank you.

Doug Davidoff 20:06
I'm curious for heart can't can't lose.

Juli Durante 20:10
Cheers to that, Doug. Forever on the same page about pop culture. Are you sure are you from New Jersey? Do you? Are we? Yeah,

Doug Davidoff 20:19
that was a I'm not from New Jersey and I'm not from Texas and that's from Texas.

Juli Durante 20:23
Yeah, but like also your love of Bruce Springsteen, boundless, which you could, you could come here. I could come here, you're invited.

Doug Davidoff 20:31
I'm a close cousin of New Jersey. That is correct.

Juli Durante 20:33
You were forever invited. I have an extra office and everything for you, Doug.

George Thomas 20:38
Tangent. Where you go, Julie, before you go. Since we're in tangent mode, go ahead and raise your arm up a little bit. I feel like we should all have gold mugs. I'm going to find gold mugs. I'm going to ship gold mugs to all of us and we should have gold mugs on every episode moving forward. So I'll reserve

Unknown Speaker 20:54
an ember mug. I highly recommend one.

Unknown Speaker 20:57
Okay,

Unknown Speaker 20:58
send me details to get my coffee.

George Thomas 21:01
I'm gonna send one to every one of the crew. Okay, go ahead, Julie. Tangent time over.

Juli Durante 21:05
Okay, well, that was really fun. Um, you need an ember mug? If you don't have one. Great Monday? No. So I love this conversation about generalists. And it made me think of this question that I see floating around LinkedIn here and there, which is like if you're building a marketing team, who's your first hire? Is it ops person? Is it a this is it about blah, blah. And I see more and more often people are saying I would hire a marketing operations person. And I don't disagree with that. But I still see a lot of value in a generalist, especially if you're thinking about early on building a team. There's, there is a lot of like, baggage around the generalist term. And I had a boss A while back, who introduced himself to me in the interview process, I was like, I'm very much a generalist, I believe in X, Y, and Z. And I like to know about all of these things and positioned himself very much that way. And that kind of gave me pause as a new hire, or a job candidate to like, oh, like sometimes it's okay to be a generalist and to apply generalist skills and not be a specialist and not be, here's, here's my one thing that I devote my entire life to when in my work world, and it's obviously over simplifying, I do want to say, you're out there, and you're thinking, well, I like being a generalist, like there's room for that. And there's space for that. And I think a lot of times a generalist is undervalued. I think in terms of these articles, and the skills listed, and there are a lot of soft skills in there, and they're great, they could probably apply to any job. So if I'm really thinking about these articles, and marketing careers, and growing or starting a career in marketing, this isn't bad advice. But I don't know if it's mark, marketing, marketing job, like, for a lot of jobs, being curious, having modesty or humility, like these are characteristics that are just good, good to have. It's good to have business acumen, regardless of the role you're in, if you're working for a business that would say, right? So I don't know. It's just the impel Well, actually,

Doug Davidoff 23:20
actually, Julie, I think, you know, at at a at a level of business acumen becomes a requirement. But if you're the CFO, and you don't have business, acumen, whoever. But if you're, if you're an accountant, you don't need to have business acumen you don't really need to understand where you are working in a, you know, highly linear closed loop. You're not managing interconnections, understanding deeper things. So I do. I do think you get to a difference.

Juli Durante 23:50
I don't think you need it, but I don't think it hurts you. So right and i

Doug Davidoff 23:55
Okay, so I've got bad news. So I've got bad news. Not every so the first thing about business acumen even though we have a course on it that I mentioned that earlier. Doo doo Of course, we do have a course on it. It's for marketers, and salespeople.

George Thomas 24:08
URL

Doug Davidoff 24:09
is it can't be taught. It can be learned. And only a small percentage of people are going to learn Wait, wait, wait, most people are not going to have this exact backup The trick here we go.

George Thomas 24:21
Backup the train. It can't wait.

Doug Davidoff 24:24
How did you say that? It can't be taught. Learn how it can be learned. We need

Max Cohen 24:30
we need to define business argument before we go any further.

George Thomas 24:35
Because here's the thing, how can it be learned if it can't be taught like that makes zero sense to me.

Doug Davidoff 24:41
Talent there's there's aspects of talent. And, and and thinking and process. There's a there's an X factor to business acumen. It's like acting can be learned. It can't be taught. There's aspects of it that are taught there's elements that are taught but but I can take what What do want to say George?

George Thomas 25:01
Might here's here's Yeah, look for that. Here's where my brain goes, it can be taught. It's just not everybody. Not everybody can learn it. That's what I hear you saying, like, because everything can be taught, it's just some people don't have the skills to actually be able to achieve them. They've been?

Doug Davidoff 25:16
No, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying, oh, man, my brain isn't it's not in school. The reason the reason that there's no business acumen class is there's an X Factor. There's an element that has to it, that you're the ability to connect disconnected pieces with an understanding of, and you can't teach that. Yeah. So So I, you can have people with the exact same coursework, you could have all these things. And the reason I say that it can be learned is no one is born with business acumen,

George Thomas 25:50
I get you I get you, I get what you're throwing down now, because it can be taught, it can be learned. But not everybody has the ability to have the vision, or, or the currency, the connection points. Like they might know the here's the five steps, but it still might not work out for them is that kind of like,

Juli Durante 26:11
I think you're assuming that in order to learn something you must be taught it. There must be like a

Max Cohen 26:23
teaching training mechanism other than perhaps experience, what does a human have to teach it to you, you can get taught by an experience or taught by a human. So George, do you mean when you say get taught you mean? A person or a course.

George Thomas 26:43
Like that, here's

Unknown Speaker 26:45
this course, I'm not talking, I want to hear the definition I want hear that a

Doug Davidoff 26:49
little bit slanted to to the to a sales and marketing orientation of it. So it's not, it's the ability to intuitively grasp the performance drivers for someone else's business, and then clearly explain how your product or service will drive their results. It's an ROI on the fly conversation, that it's an eat it's an equal mixture of business understanding, asking the right questions and pouncing on opportunity when it presents itself.

George Thomas 27:13
You can't teach that.

Doug Davidoff 27:15
Right? But you can't teach that but you can learn it. Yes, I tell. And you learned through trial and error, because by the way, that there's the other thing, okay. So I guess there's a teaching itself taught if you want to, if you want to go to a technical aspect, where I think you're somewhere along the lines of what you were saying, Max, but there you know, there's an element, there's an element of trial and error. There's a hypothesis driven approach that goes into how people with business acumen perform. Some people have the mindset and a mind that creates hypotheses some, some don't, it's a very, I've been taught to a large degree, what I love about business argument is it's very general, it's driven, it's very range. If you've read the book range, it's very much about range. It's, it's the exposure to a wide set of situations, so that you have the ability to connect the dots. And some people can connect dots. And it's okay. What I'm about to say it's okay, it doesn't make anybody less perfect. Some people can't. Yeah, I and and if you're not someone that that connects dots, and especially that enjoys connecting dots, there are plenty of places where you can be great. And you can be exceptional and you can even be great and exceptional in marketing if you want to be without that. But But it also means where where you want to go, what what your marketing role is does not like a graphic artist. Even an illustrator, I think as you begin to get to illustrator, business, acumen begin aspects of it begin to out, they don't necessarily need to understand the financial implication. But as an example, the fact that I understand the difference between an optics expense and a Capek capex expense, helps me jump into a situation to change how we're talking about one thing in one situation and differently in another situation. And most people would say, what is that arcane aspect have to do anything, the fact that I understand what a debt covenant is, and so, you know, my client that has a very capital intensive business, so therefore, they need to borrow money to fund that. And I want to bring out this, you know, and they've got growth expectations, and I understand what the impact of certain expenses are going to be, allows me to never make a recommendation, and even to bring out what they need to be careful about that completely changes the path that they're going on. So that I know we started off talking about marketing and now we're in what his business acumen but yeah,

George Thomas 29:47
so so I'll say a couple of things here. One, good luck to all of you watching and listening. This to Google the words out of the last minute of Doug's speaking Because there will be some searching being done. I can tell that Imagine

Doug Davidoff 30:03
all the business

George Thomas 30:04
Yeah. Hey look at that market look at look at that marketing. Julie I really want to get your thoughts on kind of last because by the way we've we've blasted through this and I didn't even get to trigger a dog with T shaped marketer this time so that's Shane was waiting for that to

Doug Davidoff 30:24
marketers generalist actually you want me over that's a T shaped marketer is a generalist and there's an awful lot of value for generalist, I'm All I said was You don't have to be

George Thomas 30:34
Hey, I'm clocking out I'm done for the day I one dog over I can't even believe it. The weight. There you go. Let's party the the way. The other podcasts that we've done this ended is the last words out of Doug's mouth was I hate t shaped marketers. So that's good. That's good that we end this way. Julie, what are your closing thoughts on what makes a good marketer? What is marketing business? Aquaman the amount of googling that our viewers and listeners are gonna have to do after this? You know, session. Give me your closing thoughts.

Juli Durante 31:06
Number one, skill. Number one, tell me you're an expert. Googler and prove it? No, I think there's a from what I've learned about marketing, there's always a lot to to learn and that curiosity component is important. Also, I said this last time I'll say this again, as much as perhaps generalists are undervalued. So his ability to write and communicate by writing so polish up those writing skills.

George Thomas 31:30
Yeah, that was a whole big part of the conversation last time. That's a tough pill for me to swallow anyway, while I swallow my pills, while you Google, all the things that you've listened to today, make sure that you let us know you're enjoying the show. Make sure you hit us up real ju Li D at Doug Davidoff at the max Jacob Cohen and of course I'm at George B. Thomas on the Twitter's Make sure you use the hashtag hashtag sprocket talk hashtag the spot podcast and we will see you in the next episode.